Go Back   EcoModder Forum > EcoModding > EcoModding Central
Register Now
 Register Now
 

Reply  Post New Thread
 
Submit Tools LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 01-24-2017, 10:10 AM   #51 (permalink)
Not Doug
 
Xist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Show Low, AZ
Posts: 12,186

Chorizo - '00 Honda Civic HX, baby! :D
90 day: 35.35 mpg (US)

Mid-Life Crisis Fighter - '99 Honda Accord LX
90 day: 34.2 mpg (US)

Gramps - '04 Toyota Camry LE
90 day: 35.39 mpg (US)

Don't hit me bro - '05 Toyota Camry LE
90 day: 29.44 mpg (US)
Thanks: 7,225
Thanked 2,217 Times in 1,708 Posts
Just posted today: "They can’t miscalculate, overspend or waste because the average profit margin in restaurants is 3 to 5 percent." Surcharge becoming new norm in restaurant industry - The San Diego Union-Tribune

The Arizona minimum wage went up 24% on New Year's Day. "Hamer said Arizona's minimum wage is now on par with many parts of New York state, where the cost of living is much higher." Arizona Chamber of Commerce: Warnings about Proposition 206 already coming true - ABC15 Arizona

Arizona voters did not increase school funding, but districts are still obligated to pay more.

The economy is complicated.

  Reply With Quote
Alt Today
Popular topics

Other popular topics in this forum...

   
Old 01-25-2017, 07:40 PM   #52 (permalink)
ScanGauge <3
 
ThermionicScott's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: CID
Posts: 364
Thanks: 226
Thanked 129 Times in 91 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by uadialej View Post
Not sure about the 3rd gen, but the 2nd gen trans fluid change interval is 100k. I wouldn't worry about it. I would definitely go with the Toyota brand ATF WS (or whatever is specced for the 3rd gen) that is made for the Prius trans though. As far as I know, there is no aftermarket equivalent. <spam content snipped>
Quit spamming! Reported.
__________________



Best tank (so far): 32 MPG

Last edited by ThermionicScott; 01-25-2017 at 07:46 PM..
  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to ThermionicScott For This Useful Post:
MetroMPG (01-25-2017)
Old 01-28-2017, 01:48 PM   #53 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 1,170

Sport Utility Prius - '10 Toyota Prius II
90 day: 52.98 mpg (US)

300k Sequoia 4WD - '01 Toyota Sequoia Limited 4wd
90 day: 20.19 mpg (US)
Thanks: 352
Thanked 265 Times in 212 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xist View Post
Just posted today: "They can’t miscalculate, overspend or waste because the average profit margin in restaurants is 3 to 5 percent." Surcharge becoming new norm in restaurant industry - The San Diego Union-Tribune

The Arizona minimum wage went up 24% on New Year's Day. "Hamer said Arizona's minimum wage is now on par with many parts of New York state, where the cost of living is much higher." Arizona Chamber of Commerce: Warnings about Proposition 206 already coming true - ABC15 Arizona

Arizona voters did not increase school funding, but districts are still obligated to pay more.

The economy is complicated.
Really not talking about that in the sense of all minimum wage but Next topic: what are you prius guys getting at 70? My car still only gets 40-41.
__________________
"I feel like the bad decisions come into play when you trade too much of your time for money paying for things you can't really afford."

Last edited by hayden55; 01-29-2017 at 01:43 PM..
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2017, 05:23 PM   #54 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
vskid3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Utah
Posts: 975

Civic DX (sold) - '97 Honda Civic DX
90 day: 34.15 mpg (US)

GTO (sold) - '04 Pontiac GTO
90 day: 22.62 mpg (US)

Green Brick (sold) - '06 Ford Escape Hybrid
90 day: 31.93 mpg (US)
Thanks: 193
Thanked 312 Times in 221 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by hayden55 View Post
what are you prius guys getting at 70? My car still only gets 40-41.
That seems a little low for a Gen3. My Gen2 usually breaks 40MPG when I go 80. Winter gas might be giving you trouble, along with the tires.
__________________


Camry Thread
E-Bike Thread
  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to vskid3 For This Useful Post:
hayden55 (01-30-2017)
Old 03-14-2018, 01:43 AM   #55 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 1,170

Sport Utility Prius - '10 Toyota Prius II
90 day: 52.98 mpg (US)

300k Sequoia 4WD - '01 Toyota Sequoia Limited 4wd
90 day: 20.19 mpg (US)
Thanks: 352
Thanked 265 Times in 212 Posts
Made a couple decisions and got me some new nerd approved wheels 👨🏻*🍳
Need to start updating a new fuel log. MPGs are wayyy up.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_3318.jpg
Views:	505
Size:	63.2 KB
ID:	23673  
__________________
"I feel like the bad decisions come into play when you trade too much of your time for money paying for things you can't really afford."
  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to hayden55 For This Useful Post:
Ecky (03-14-2018)
Old 03-14-2018, 04:53 PM   #56 (permalink)
Not Doug
 
Xist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Show Low, AZ
Posts: 12,186

Chorizo - '00 Honda Civic HX, baby! :D
90 day: 35.35 mpg (US)

Mid-Life Crisis Fighter - '99 Honda Accord LX
90 day: 34.2 mpg (US)

Gramps - '04 Toyota Camry LE
90 day: 35.39 mpg (US)

Don't hit me bro - '05 Toyota Camry LE
90 day: 29.44 mpg (US)
Thanks: 7,225
Thanked 2,217 Times in 1,708 Posts


When you attach images to your post, you can right-click on the URL, copy it, and then click on this:
Attached Images
 
  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Xist For This Useful Post:
hayden55 (03-15-2018)
Old 03-21-2018, 10:17 PM   #57 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 1,170

Sport Utility Prius - '10 Toyota Prius II
90 day: 52.98 mpg (US)

300k Sequoia 4WD - '01 Toyota Sequoia Limited 4wd
90 day: 20.19 mpg (US)
Thanks: 352
Thanked 265 Times in 212 Posts
Title: kW/m^2, window tint, and HVAC in a Prius.

Was scrolling through looking for window tint for the Prius after all this time and it got me thinking! Whats the effect on fuel economy of the HVAC system? I've always noticed even at 50F if you have your AC off in the cabin on a nice sunny day it's like the greenhouse effect and it's still hot and I need to either hit recirc or open the windows to stay school. Now, unfortunately, I was pretty busy last year and didn't nerd out too much on the Prius and log some baseline fuel numbers, but I do remember getting a sharp drop in FE if I wanted to run the AC on 97F full sun days, and I remember its inability to cool the cabin effectively. I remember it took 2.7% usage of the AC to drop the interior temp 1 degree and calculated the AC would max out at a 37-degree temperature drop between the outside and the cabin in ECO mode in given environment. So I don't have a ton of useful numbers to compare, but I know for a fact my AC number is correct. And as we all know the ac required to cool the cabin is a function of the ambient temperature, total air flow rate of the ac system, percent recirculated air (not all vehicles have 100% recirc bc of humans emitting VOCs, breathing up the air, etc...) , humidity (cooling only), and the heat gain of the passenger compartment. (https://www.nrel.gov/docs/fy00osti/28960.pdf).
But basically what I'm saying here is: Hybrids and especially EVs take a huge fricken hit on fuel economy when the devil tempts you to use the HVAC system as opposed to normal vehicles with mechanical ac compressors and the like... where the experience a small hit most normal people wont notice.
So to solve this? Well maybe my personal problem of frying like a fish in the AR summer: Window tint! Specifically 3m Crystalline.
Now this isn't a cost-effective method I can recommend just seeing it on paper, but since I plan to keep my vehicle for six more years, and I'm buying window tint anyways its pretty null and increasing comfort tremendously.
Also, I'm a cheapskate and will only be tinting the windshield, front windows, and quarter windows (omitting: rear windows, rear quarters, rear window). If it gets hot back there so be it until if I decided to tint them as well.
Stock Prius Glass numbers:
_________ UV Block __ Solar Energy Red. __ VLT __
Windshield 100 55 80
1/4 window 92 46 74
Front 91 49 75
3m CR 40 99.9 60 39
3m CR 70 99.9 34 86
(https://priuschat.com/threads/2010-p...w-specs.61167/)
(https://multimedia.3m.com/mws/media/...s-brochure.pdf)
Now onto calcs: I still need to be legal VLT wise so I have to stay around 70% up front to be DOT legal-ish and 25% on the side windows to be legal in AR.

Calculating:
UV cut: well given these numbers it's pretty close to 100% on all modded values so that's what I'll use.
Solar Energy reduction: This number is the inverse of the vlt's format, so you will need to take the 55% above and make it a 45%. 55% reduction in heat = 45% of heat transmitted.
Vlt: Same as above but in the correct format. You have a first layer that cuts x % then the second layer cuts x % of the remaining amount that passed through.
For my case:
Window:
UV cut: 100%
Solar energy reduction: 70.3%
0.45*0.66= 0.297% energy allowed through; 1-0.297 = 70.3% energy rejection.
VLT: 68.8%
0.8*0.86= 68.8% light transmitted.

1/4 window:
UV: 100% cut
SER: 78.4% energy transmittance reduction.
VLT: 28.86%

F. Window:
UV: 100% cut
SER: 79.6% energy transmittance reduction.
VLT: 29.85%

Now if I remember correctly AR is around 870w/m^2 of thermal transmissivity when the sun is out. We don't have the depleted ozone of Arizona just yet so its a little milder here. Too bad we have all that humidity we can't do anything about.
(https://www.nrel.gov/gis/solar.html)
So if we run some guesstimate of the numbers using my handy dandy tape measure:
Front window (not counting black surround): 0.9855 m2
F. Window: 0.2695 m2
1/4: 0.02596 m2
So given how the sun shines it to me only really hits one side of the vehicle plus the top of the vehicle at a time. So adding those values up we get 1.5146 m2 of useful protection with our CR window tint at most times.
Doing the math individually:
Front windshield:
0.9855m2 x 870W/m2/h = 857.385W/h solar transmittance
Stock: 857.385 x 0.55 = 471.56 Watt/h reduction
Modded: 857.385 x 0.703 = 602.74 ...
Diff: 131.18 watts less needed per hour to maintain cabin temp.

F. Window: 0.2695m2 x 870W/m2/h = 234.465W/h
Stock: 234.465 x 0.49 = 114.8879W/h
Modded: ... x 0.796 = 186.63414W/h
Diff: 71.75 W/h less

Quarter window: 22.5852 W/h
S: 10.3892 W/h
M:17.7068 W/h
D: 7.32 W/h

So all in it looks like it will take the cooling load 210.25 Watts less per hour to maintain cabin temp, but the nonmeasurable effect is that this is all direct sunlight on the driver so it will feel as if more was reduced. Coming from a Civic with no AC and no window tint driving 150 mi a day in 100 degree sunny AR heat I completely understand this effect.

Polling it out at average speed my average speed over 9999 miles on the dash was 49 mph. Averaging the EPA 49 mpg combined thats a gallon per hour, using the EPAs gasoline energy content number of 33.7kWh/gal then converting the unit down by the thermal efficiency of 38.5% since 61.5% of our energy we put into the engine is lost to physics and not actually turned into any useful energy that means we are using 12,974.5W/h to travel. (12,974.5-210.25)/21,974.5 = 1.647% gain in FE on average.
Highway numbers at 69 mph and 48 mpg that converts out to
69/48 = 1.416... gal/h * 0.385 = 0.545416... gal * 33.7kWh/gal = 18,380.5 W/h to move down the interstate. That gives a 1.116% increase in the highway number of the vehicle.
City working out to 32.63 mph average (from our 49 mph number) if we do the same math as above given 50 mpg...
32.63/50 = x gal/h * 0.385 = x gal * 33.7kWh/gal = 8467.2 W/h to maintain my Prius road obstacle (slow Prius joke ha)... Divide it out = 2.546% gain in city mileage.

Well, I guess somehow after all after all my jokes about engineering school I've learned something useful this year in my third year. Thermoeconomics is starting to seem useful.

So if that's right and I do the same hocus-pocus math as the Prius ECO that would take my sticker from
50/49/48 to 51/50/49

Also, the interesting part to note here is running 50F weather around town I've been averaging 65 mpg. So when summer kicks in it will be interesting to note the increase!

So it looks like modifying my Aero by running a 4" race mirror on the drivers side, no passenger mirror, no passenger wiper, no antenna stick, no rear wiper or squirter, 50 pound weight reduction (Hitch kit added weight), 185mm LRR tires, smooth wheel covers, and running the solar rejection tint, I essentially have a new 2010 Prius II Eco (see: 2016 Prius II eco vs standard model).

Things to notice here:
The more windows you tint the more the window tint has an effect on fuel economy. So a 2010 Prius may gain 1.647% with just the front windows tinted and the windshield (theoretically on paper), but thinking about the effect the rear windows and hatch could also have you could have a much larger gain. Really only a nerd stat on gasoline-fueled vehicle bc will this ever ROI out? No probs not homies... But you can brag to your friends about your big dong.. i mean big mpg.
Secondly! The more efficient the vehicle, the higher the effect the window tint will make. Since you are consuming less fuel it becomes a larger piece of the pie (if you're needing to use the AC) and therefore a larger percentage. You insight guys I'm looking at you. We all know old Hondas have bad AC anyways. Imagine the gain on a fully tinted Insight getting 65mpg. I only did CR 90 on the windshield too, and depending on the area you could go to CR 70 and still be legal (Arizona, Texas, etc...)
Lastly, the big kicker here is the range anxiety on electric vehicles. Imagine on a new Hyundai Ionic EV (similar to a Prius in size). They are rated for 133 mpge combined, 150 city, 122 highway. I'm just gonna assume I can double my window tint number to simulate the entire vehicle being tinted you could end up gaining 6% city or 3.5% combined mileage.
Now I'm still in school and human so If you see anything wrong feel free to correct me.
So it looks like if you want every last little bit in a new fuel efficient vehicle buy the white model to reduces the solar gain on the skin of the body, and tint all the windows with some nice solar heat rejecting film.

Splittin hairs folks, splittin hairs...
__________________
"I feel like the bad decisions come into play when you trade too much of your time for money paying for things you can't really afford."

Last edited by hayden55; 03-21-2018 at 10:37 PM..
  Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to hayden55 For This Useful Post:
Ecky (03-22-2018), mpg_numbers_guy (03-22-2018)
Old 03-22-2018, 05:48 PM   #58 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 1,170

Sport Utility Prius - '10 Toyota Prius II
90 day: 52.98 mpg (US)

300k Sequoia 4WD - '01 Toyota Sequoia Limited 4wd
90 day: 20.19 mpg (US)
Thanks: 352
Thanked 265 Times in 212 Posts
Interesting spot:
0w-16 is finally coming out in full force for cheap at Walmart (cheapest) in June 2018. Excited to try 0w-16 and not have to pay 45.00 for oil vs 19.99 for 0w-20. Will be interesting to note if their claim that there is a 2% change in FE in vehicles like the Gen 3 prius and some Hondas between 16 and 20 weight.
https://fuelsandlubes.com/pennzoil-l...us-technology/
__________________
"I feel like the bad decisions come into play when you trade too much of your time for money paying for things you can't really afford."

Last edited by hayden55; 03-22-2018 at 07:28 PM..
  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to hayden55 For This Useful Post:
Vman455 (03-22-2018)
Old 03-23-2018, 02:55 PM   #59 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Texas
Posts: 678
Thanks: 20
Thanked 146 Times in 130 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by hayden55 View Post

5. Some Trump stickers for good measure. I have to let people know i'm a straight republican 20 year old male. (can't have the standard barrage of liberal stickers )
you could upgrade to LIBERTARIAN stickers, like I have on my car, and yes, I'm hetero.
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2018, 04:03 PM   #60 (permalink)
Human Environmentalist
 
redpoint5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Oregon
Posts: 12,440

Acura TSX - '06 Acura TSX
90 day: 24.19 mpg (US)

Lafawnda - CBR600 - '01 Honda CBR600 F4i
90 day: 47.32 mpg (US)

Big Yeller - Dodge/Cummins - '98 Dodge Ram 2500 base
90 day: 21.82 mpg (US)

Mazda CX-5 - '17 Mazda CX-5 Touring
90 day: 26.68 mpg (US)

Chevy ZR-2 - '03 Chevrolet S10 ZR2
90 day: 17.14 mpg (US)

Model Y - '24 Tesla Y LR AWD
Thanks: 4,207
Thanked 4,387 Times in 3,361 Posts
I find stickers to be insufficient to describe me, so I don't put 'em on. Sure, I like to be provocative and challenge others comfort as much as anyone else (considered making a sticker for my Prius that says my other vehicle is a diesel truck), but encouraging others to evaluate you 1-dimensionally is selling yourself short.

Although I'm still registered to a political party (due to laziness), my identity is individual, not in a group. All groups contain some bad ideas. At this point, I'd probably hang out with any group that would have me, especially if they have beer. Maybe I should create the "I'm just here for the beer" party, with the single issue being affordable access to beer.

__________________
Gas and Electric Vehicle Cost of Ownership Calculator







Give me absolute safety, or give me death!

Last edited by redpoint5; 03-23-2018 at 04:17 PM..
  Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to redpoint5 For This Useful Post:
Ecky (03-23-2018), elhigh (03-25-2018)
Reply  Post New Thread


Thread Tools




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.5.2
All content copyright EcoModder.com