Go Back   EcoModder Forum > EcoModding > Aerodynamics
Register
Now


Reply
 
Submit Tools LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 07-14-2008, 12:15 PM   #41 (permalink)
EcoModding Minded
 
Chris D.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Monticello, MN
Posts: 577

Lunar Mist - '02 Tacoma SR5
90 day: 25.31 mpg (US)
Send a message via AIM to Chris D.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peakster View Post
You know I was just curious :


hmmm makes me think about trying this..






(Support Ecomodder.com & get rid of these annoying ads!)      
 
__________________

  Reply With Quote
Old 07-14-2008, 03:34 PM   #42 (permalink)
EcoModding Lurker
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: NJ land of high auto insurance and pollution
Posts: 9
This is some cool software!

Uploaded a 2009 Ford Escape Hybrid to my youtube.
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-14-2008, 05:41 PM   #43 (permalink)
Mr. Blue Tape
 
azraelswrd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Fresno, CA
Posts: 332

AzxA - '06 xA
90 day: 42.02 mpg (US)
Wow, this program is nice. I knew my car had bad drag but wow... was it really this bad? Yikes!

I'll have to look into that floating parallel spoiler idea.
__________________


My 5 pillars of fuel efficiency:
  • driving style
  • aerodynamics
  • tires
  • weight reduction
  • engine maintenance
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-14-2008, 06:30 PM   #44 (permalink)
EcoModding Lurker
 
texanidiot25's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Cypress, TX
Posts: 69

SlowBird - '90 Firebird
90 day: 13.46 mpg (US)
Quote:
Originally Posted by i_am_socket View Post
I'm getting some interesting movies using the high Re numbers.

I get a lot of this:


using 2,500,000. Is it supposed to look like that?
Lower the Dt number to around .01, it seems to spaz out with higher Dt numbers. Real psychodelic stuff.
__________________

1990 Pontiac Firebird
3.1L V6, 4 speed auto, 270,000 miles and T-Tops!
Just finished getting it back on the road and in my hands for the 1st time.
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-14-2008, 06:39 PM   #45 (permalink)
EcoModding Lurker
 
adrive7's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: DC Metro
Posts: 48

Ranger - '08 Ranger XL
90 day: 22.99 mpg (US)

Cobalt - '05 Cobalt LS

Zuma - '99 Zuma II
Send a message via AIM to adrive7
Quote:
Originally Posted by i_am_socket View Post
I'm getting some interesting movies using the high Re numbers.

I get a lot of this:


using 2,500,000. Is it supposed to look like that?
I would try adding white area all around the vehicle. Also, get rid of the tires so you can see the air flow under the car. If you increased the time step (dt) take it back down to around .01. It looks like you are seeing effects from the edges of the pictures, but I don't know why it would do that. Adding white area around it should get rid of that problem (if thats what it is)

The Reynolds number is fine.
__________________
Ohio State Baja SAE
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-14-2008, 07:16 PM   #46 (permalink)
Pokémoderator
 
cfg83's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Southern California
Posts: 1,648

1999 Saturn SW2 - '99 Wagon SW2
90 day: 42.91 mpg (US)
adrive7 -

Quote:
Originally Posted by adrive7 View Post
I would try adding white area all around the vehicle. Also, get rid of the tires so you can see the air flow under the car. If you increased the time step (dt) take it back down to around .01. It looks like you are seeing effects from the edges of the pictures, but I don't know why it would do that. Adding white area around it should get rid of that problem (if thats what it is)

The Reynolds number is fine.
I agree. In my runs, I added a "road" below my "hover-car" and I put some empty space behind the car to analyze the wake that my mods created.

If you put the tires on, I think it is like having "Flintstone Roller" tires, because you are cutting off airflow below the vehicle. I *think* if you want to approximate tires, you could add shallow "bumps" where the tires are. Maybe the compromise is to approximate how much "area" the tires displace below the car and make the "bump" proportional to that. Does that make sense?

I used an Re of 2,500,000 in my second analysis, and I set it to 40 seconds. I also used a 2-bit Bitmap.

CarloSW2
__________________

What's your EPA MPG? Go Here and find out!
American Solar Energy Society
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-16-2008, 10:50 PM   #47 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
wagonman76's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Northwest Lower Michigan
Posts: 362

Red Car - '89 Celebrity CL 4 door
90 day: 34.81 mpg (US)

Winter Wagon - '89 6000 LE Wagon
90 day: 23.21 mpg (US)
This is pretty cool, but I can't play the videos either. My computer at work is the only one with high speed internet and I can't install anything, at least right now. Could someone give me a hand with this one? I copied a side view (pre-airdam) into Autocad and traced around it, then solid filled it, so it was black on white. Wheels off should simulate airflow under the majority of the car.

Attached Images
File Type: bmp CelebProfile2.bmp (16.1 KB, 198 views)
__________________
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-16-2008, 11:15 PM   #48 (permalink)
EcoModding Lurker
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Chicagoland
Posts: 96
Hi All,

This is all very interesting. But its been commented elsewhere what is usabilty of the results? One thing to look at is the flow at the rear. If there is flow upward, then extending the cam back is the thing to do. And if the flow is downward, then doing a diffuser, with some rear belly-panning is the the thing to do. What one wants to do is make the flow go straght back without upward or downward velocity components.

Can somebody do a Prius without wheels ?
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-16-2008, 11:35 PM   #49 (permalink)
Mr. Blue Tape
 
azraelswrd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Fresno, CA
Posts: 332

AzxA - '06 xA
90 day: 42.02 mpg (US)
Wagonman



Values I used:

Re = 2,500,000
dt = 0.01
length = 30 sec
cutoff level = 0
__________________


My 5 pillars of fuel efficiency:
  • driving style
  • aerodynamics
  • tires
  • weight reduction
  • engine maintenance
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-2008, 01:07 PM   #50 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
wagonman76's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Northwest Lower Michigan
Posts: 362

Red Car - '89 Celebrity CL 4 door
90 day: 34.81 mpg (US)

Winter Wagon - '89 6000 LE Wagon
90 day: 23.21 mpg (US)
Cool, thanks a bunch!
__________________
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-2008, 02:33 PM   #51 (permalink)
EcoMod Wannabe
 
Sean T.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Lake Orion, MI
Posts: 200

Taurusaurus Rex - '97 Taurus GL (Sedan)
90 day: 21.92 mpg (US)
where are you guys getting these bitmaps of your cars?
__________________
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-2008, 03:26 PM   #52 (permalink)
Mr. Blue Tape
 
azraelswrd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Fresno, CA
Posts: 332

AzxA - '06 xA
90 day: 42.02 mpg (US)
We make our own bitmaps. Find an image, pop it into some image editing program and delete non-car (but make sure to preserve the ground level to simulate the tires height).

I've done my xA (haven't posted it) and was working on that Prius.
__________________


My 5 pillars of fuel efficiency:
  • driving style
  • aerodynamics
  • tires
  • weight reduction
  • engine maintenance
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-2008, 05:12 PM   #53 (permalink)
Mr. Blue Tape
 
azraelswrd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Fresno, CA
Posts: 332

AzxA - '06 xA
90 day: 42.02 mpg (US)
2008 Prius



Re = 2465148 (calculated for 55mph)
dt = 0.01
length = 30sec
cutoff level = 0
__________________


My 5 pillars of fuel efficiency:
  • driving style
  • aerodynamics
  • tires
  • weight reduction
  • engine maintenance
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-2008, 06:58 PM   #54 (permalink)
EcoModding Apprentice
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Des Moines, IA
Posts: 124

Oden - '00 Frontier Crew Cab
90 day: 19.48 mpg (US)

Malinda - '03 Grand Cherokee Limited
90 day: 13.69 mpg (US)

Nerdcycle - '81 CM400E
90 day: 47.36 mpg (US)
One thing I'm noticing on these that they're going to be pretty inaccurate if you don't have a belly pan, since all your bitmaps have smooth bottoms.
__________________

  Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-2008, 07:25 PM   #55 (permalink)
Pokémoderator
 
cfg83's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Southern California
Posts: 1,648

1999 Saturn SW2 - '99 Wagon SW2
90 day: 42.91 mpg (US)
extragoode -

Quote:
Originally Posted by extragoode View Post
One thing I'm noticing on these that they're going to be pretty inaccurate if you don't have a belly pan, since all your bitmaps have smooth bottoms.
I did an approximation with some random "bumps" on the underside and didn't see much of a difference. I'll upload it later tonight so you can see.

CarloSW2
__________________

What's your EPA MPG? Go Here and find out!
American Solar Energy Society
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-2008, 08:58 PM   #56 (permalink)
EcoModding Lurker
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Chicagoland
Posts: 96
Hi azrael...,

Ooops..

Last edited by donee; 07-17-2008 at 09:04 PM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-2008, 09:03 PM   #57 (permalink)
EcoModding Lurker
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Chicagoland
Posts: 96
Hi azrael...,

Thanks for the Prius model.

The flow off the top, and off the bottom look very balanced. Possibly there is more flow coming up from below, and going turbulent. My car always has a dirty rear window undeneath the hatch spoiler. That seems to support the model results. Possibly a linear difusser, and a shallow angle might help that.

The car has very poor flow out the wheel well vents. And the hatch fogs up easily, and takes along time to defog. So, this also supports that the flow from underneath the car is stalling.
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-2008, 11:41 PM   #58 (permalink)
Veggiedynamics
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Alexandria, MN
Posts: 658

Extreme CRX-HF - '87 CRX custom areo
90 day: 50.8 mpg (US)
here is the areo CRX as it sits in its current state..
__________________

  Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-2008, 11:58 PM   #59 (permalink)
Coasting Down the Peak
 
skyl4rk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: M I C H I G A N
Posts: 77

Toyauto Pickup - '94 Pickup 2WD
90 day: 36.32 mpg (US)
So other than being interesting in a lava lamp sort of way, how do you interpret the video to determine what is a lower air resistance?

Less red is better?

Less movement (wave action) is better?

Both?
__________________
pedal power - 2 miles per pbj samwich
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2008, 12:23 AM   #60 (permalink)
Veggiedynamics
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Alexandria, MN
Posts: 658

Extreme CRX-HF - '87 CRX custom areo
90 day: 50.8 mpg (US)
Im not positive but yes i think your right less red and less wavey the better
__________________

  Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
air dam, air flow, simulation, spoiler, wind tunnel

Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
The Mechanism Behind Flow Separation LostCause Aerodynamics 45 05-03-2008 05:33 PM




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.2.0 RC5
All content copyright EcoModder.com