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Old 05-21-2012, 08:17 PM   #51 (permalink)
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I have a carchip data logger I don't use. If you're interested, PM me about it.

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Old 05-22-2012, 02:17 AM   #52 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Christ View Post
I have a carchip data logger I don't use. If you're interested, PM me about it.
PM sent.

First run with updated HAI hardware, alongside the same run from last week with the old HAI hardware:



LabelDate/TimeDistanceConsumedFEOATIATdelta-TStatus
B19-May-2012 1:33 AM58.7 miles2.99 gallons19.63 MPG58 F104 F46 FActive
B22-May-2012 1:32 AM58.7 miles2.88 gallons20.38 MPG60 F116 F56 FActive


Thank you all for your suggestions for data loggers. I think I shall go with the CarChip Pro.
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Old 05-22-2012, 02:34 AM   #53 (permalink)
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Enter: humidity

Basically, you are virtually attempting to reduce the volumetric efficiency of your engine by making the air less dense - not by reducing the volume of air, but the mass of air, and hopefully reducing pumping losses in the process.

Have you thought of the effects of increasing the humidity of your intake air? I know, I know, water injection has been discussed to death on this forum and it has no effect. But what if you combine it with a HAI?

Here is a link to a dyno correction calculator that I have been playing around with: Relative Horsepower Calculator

Here are some calculations that I have tried (assuming this calculator is accurate, which it must be because it's on the internet!):

BASELINE
Air Temp: 70F
Barometric Press: 29.03"
Relative Humidity: 0%
Elevation: 0 Ft
= 100.0% Relative Horsepower To Rated

INCREASED AIR TEMP
Air Temp: 160F
Barometric Press: 29.03"
Relative Humidity: 0%
Elevation: 0 Ft
= 91.2% Relative Horsepower To Rated (not a huge difference)

INCREASED HUMIDITY
Air Temp: 70F
Barometric Press: 29.03"
Relative Humidity: 100%
Elevation: 0 Ft
= 97.0% Relative Horsepower To Rated (Less of a difference)

Now...wait for it.....

INCREASED INTAKE TEMP & INCREASED HUMIDITY
Air Temp: 160F
Barometric Press: 29.03"
Relative Humidity: 100%
Elevation: 0 Ft
= 57.8% Relative Horsepower To Rated (HOLY MOLY)

However....I see a problem for us folks with automatic transmissions. Having a larger throttle angle is going to make the transmission quicker to kick down to a lower gear. Maybe steady cruising in high gear will be impossible because the tranny will keep kicking down. Our electronicky cars don't have kickdown linkages to adjust either. Maybe this doesn't matter, who knows.
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Old 05-22-2012, 12:56 PM   #54 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mechman600 View Post
Basically, you are virtually attempting to reduce the volumetric efficiency of your engine by making the air less dense - not by reducing the volume of air, but the mass of air, and hopefully reducing pumping losses in the process.
Not quite. The reduction in volumetric efficiency is an unavoidable side-effect of what the HAI is doing. Consider a vehicle that we want to move at a constant and steady speed.

Here, let's look at this graph from this here website:



This graph is a representation of what goes on inside a cylinder of an ideal gasoline engine that has a throttle. It is a plot of in-cylinder pressure against the swept volume of the cylinder as the piston travels back and forth. The intake, compression, power, and exhaust strokes are all represented here.

Note the two loops. The first loop, that has no color, is the power loop where the air/fuel mixture is combusted to produce mechanical power. The area of the first loop represents the total mechanical power that is created when the fuel/air mix is combusted.

The second loop, in grey, is the pumping loop. The grey area represents the work that the engine has to perform just to expel exhaust gas and then suck in more fuel/air mixture. Two values are crucial to determining this area: P(atm), which represents atmospheric pressure; and P(man), which represents the intake manifold vacuum. If you subtract the grey area from the power loop area, you get the total remaining power available to do things like overcome mechanical friction, turn the alternator and water pump and any other engine accessories, and ultimately drive the vehicle forward.

Now, remember that this graph is a representation of pressure against swept volume. The mass of the air/fuel mixture does not directly relate to this. It is the pressure that is important. For a given part-throttle load, the mass of the air/fuel mixture must remain constant in order to support that load. This, however, does not need to hold true for pressure.

Now, the HAI is relevant to this graph because it reduces the grey area. Specifically, the HAI pushes the P(man) value upward to become closer to P(atm). This has the effect of reducing the grey pumping work area, which frees up mechanical energy to do things like push the vehicle forward.

Now, if we left the air/fuel mass alone in this scenario, the result of having more mechanical work to push the vehicle forward would be to cause the vehicle to move faster. As we would want our vehicle to continue moving at a constant and steady speed, we would instead adjust the throttle in order to maintain the vehicle at its steady speed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mechman600 View Post
Have you thought of the effects of increasing the humidity of your intake air? I know, I know, water injection has been discussed to death on this forum and it has no effect. But what if you combine it with a HAI?
Assuming a fine mist spray that allows the water to turn into water vapor, and assuming that the water was at the same temperature as the air to begin with, then the added water vapor would provide a throttling effect without the inefficiency provided by the throttle body. This would cause the intake manifold vacuum to lower, as well, further reducing the gray area in the above graph.

However, there are several practical real-world problems associated with water injection. HAI water injection is a subject which deserves its own thread, separate from this one.

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However....I see a problem for us folks with automatic transmissions. Having a larger throttle angle is going to make the transmission quicker to kick down to a lower gear.
Yah, I'm already seeing this. It would seem that it takes less gas pedal than before, to send my truck into open loop acceleration. Kickdowns also appear to happen with less gas than before. I suspect this is the engine computer's way of dealing with the elevated intake air temperature.

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Originally Posted by mechman600 View Post
Maybe steady cruising in high gear will be impossible because the tranny will keep kicking down. Our electronicky cars don't have kickdown linkages to adjust either. Maybe this doesn't matter, who knows.
Only way to really find out is to experiment!
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Old 05-22-2012, 01:41 PM   #55 (permalink)
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FTR - If your car has a lockup converter, figure out how to lock it up manually and you'll keep the trans from "hunting" for gears.
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Old 05-22-2012, 04:02 PM   #56 (permalink)
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Quote:
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FTR - If your car has a lockup converter, figure out how to lock it up manually and you'll keep the trans from "hunting" for gears.
I tried this with the Matrix. Grounded the TC lockup solenoid. Worked for about 10 seconds until a code came up for "TC solenoid circuit". So I devised a brilliant scheme to disconnect the TC solenoid circuit and switch it to a resistor to simulate the proper circuit load, while powering the TC solenoid separately (all with a bunch or relays and whatnot). This worked for about 11 seconds until the ECU saw the turbine speed equal to engine speed and threw a code for "turbine speed unexpected". I gave up. It can probably be done properly, but I don't have the skills for that.
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Old 05-22-2012, 07:33 PM   #57 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mechman600 View Post
I tried this with the Matrix. Grounded the TC lockup solenoid. Worked for about 10 seconds until a code came up for "TC solenoid circuit". So I devised a brilliant scheme to disconnect the TC solenoid circuit and switch it to a resistor to simulate the proper circuit load, while powering the TC solenoid separately (all with a bunch or relays and whatnot). This worked for about 11 seconds until the ECU saw the turbine speed equal to engine speed and threw a code for "turbine speed unexpected". I gave up. It can probably be done properly, but I don't have the skills for that.
Check whether or not that code will affect the engine's operation. It probably won't, so just ignore it and check for other codes every 10k miles.
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Old 05-22-2012, 07:44 PM   #58 (permalink)
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Whenever a tranny code came up it went into limp mode and acted really strange, like only using 2nd and 3rd gear. Not very driveable, and needless to say I got scared!

Anyway, t vago, thanks for the info above. Very informative.
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Old 05-24-2012, 10:02 AM   #59 (permalink)
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I am trying to find a small heater core or trans cooler for the same setup in my Matrix. The max dimensions are 4-1/2"X9" and I am having trouble finding such a small heat exchanger. Any ideas?

I may start off with a wicked tin foil/exhaust wrapped HAI setup, but first I need an SC for testing purposes.
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Old 05-24-2012, 11:31 AM   #60 (permalink)
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I am trying to find a small heater core or trans cooler for the same setup in my Matrix. The max dimensions are 4-1/2"X9" and I am having trouble finding such a small heat exchanger. Any ideas?

I may start off with a wicked tin foil/exhaust wrapped HAI setup, but first I need an SC for testing purposes.
Look for an oil cooler from late 80's early 90's bikes. Specifically oil/water cooled bikes. The Ninja 600 in '92 had a 4"x(10") cooler on it, pretty close. (if you cut the mounts off)

Look in other places than cars, too. computer liquid cooling systems often have odd-shaped cores.

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