What is possible from SUVs?

[bhartmann10]

Hey all,

I wanted to get some feedback from the forum regarding what is possible in the way of MPG improvement in a mid-sized SUV such as a Hyundai Santa FE or Chevrolet Equinox?

My wife and I are in the market to replace my beloved but aging Suzuki with something that has more space for our new baby and her stuff in addition to incorporating more safety features (traction control, multiple airbags, etc.) and more space for my 6'7" 300# frame which I have shoehorned into said Suzuki every day for the last 7 years.

This will primarily be my vehichle for a 50 mile round-trip daily commute and for our occasional family trips of moderate distance. Since it is going to be primarily my vehicle, I am planning on Hypermiling the vehicle. Right now we are leaning towards the Santa FE or Equinox. Perhaps my wife would be able to be talked into a Scion xB...maybe.

I am just looking for some input as to what some of the rare others with SUVs have found in their efforts? We would be going with Fwd , not 4wd , and with an automatic transmission, and the smallest engine option as we don't need it for towing or anything of the sort.

Thoughts?

Brian

[c0da]

I think your best bet for hypermiling in an SUV would be the Escape hybrid. Highest I've seen anyone get in those was about 39mpg. But honestly, I'd talk her into the xB since it's cheaper and would allow for a few mods to be added.

If at all possible go test drive both and see what you're more comfortable with. I'm sure you can apply any hypermiling tips to both and beat the EPA. And test out a Prius to see if it has enough head/leg room for you. If it doesn't, next years model is supposed to be a bit bigger if you're willing to wait that long.

[DifferentPointofView]

You can definitely get more out of an SUV than it's rated for. How much really depends on the amount of low end torque it has, and how you are going to drive it.

XB would be nice, but it's more of a brick than a lot of SUV's, although less frontal area and smaller engine. Escape Hybrid would also be nice.

How about a subaru? I've seen some nice suby's with lots of room, and good FE. Also, The sante Fe would be nice.

Does anyone know if the Exquinox has the option of a cylinder shut-off engine? I Know the trailblazer has one, but it's a V8. It shuts off 4 cylinders while idleing and on the highway to save fuel.

Which brings up the question... what are you planning on driving the most? highway or city?

[trikkonceptz]

Well once I stabilize the vibe I'll have my eyes set on my 4-runner. Now funny thing is that in that small small frame and body lies a v8, which from the get go gets better gas mileage than its 6cyl counterpart because of power weight.

So for ****s and giggles and to start teaching the wife how to save gas we went driving all day in it with no changes other than resetting the trip odometer. Idling @ lights, a/c on all the time, fully loaded with baby crap, three occupants, a full tank of gas, roof rack, mudflaps, and low pressure tires.

A 122 mile day netted us 23.2 mpg with a 50/50 split city hwy. SO I am sure once I get my hands on that bad boy 30mpg is well within our reach. Which is perfect considering we need the suv for our daily lives.

Now the new xB has the 2.4L 4 cyl with vvt-i technology and actually weighs less than the tC and camry. Therefore you should see pretty good numbers out of it it you adjust the nut behind the wheel properly... Plus you gain all the safety, comfort and storage size you may need. Plus they make lowering kits for them and the factory hubcaps come pretty smooth already.

So bang for buck the xB may be the way to go as far as SUV ish vehicles ..

[bhartmann10]

Previous:
"Which brings up the question... what are you planning on driving the most? highway or city?"

My driving demands are probably 20%city/80%highway. But the 80% highway is rather hilly (climb from about 630 ft to 1050 ft and back down to 720 ft at work. But the route is rural and I can play with the rpms quite a lot with the lack of traffic.

From my own standpoint, I prefer the xB. The vast majority of the vehicle's use will be commuting on my part and the xB has the best combination of space for me and for the times that the whole family is with me, but also has the economy that we also need. I don't think that it is wise to purchase a vehicle if it is ideal for 5% of its intended utilization while it is less than ideal for the 80% of the time it is spent commuting. Heck, if we need the space of a midsized SUV for a trip, we can rent one.

The Ford Escape Hybrid is intriguing, but I don't think that that the economics make sense compared to the xB.

Brian

[esmith2039]

Going with what I know.. a 2.3L Escape would be my suggestion. Our 3.0/auto gets 23mpg on the highway and the 4 cylinders are capable of getting 29+. In 2009 their coming out with a 6 speed tranny which ought to make mpg a little better.

[LostCause]

If it is economics you are concerned about, I would list all the cars you are willing to own in Excel and work out the economics by looking at purchase price, EPA mpg, predicted reliability, depreciation, and insurance rates. Determine the cost per mile and go from there.

Cars that score a higher EPA rating will almost certainly be easier to hypermile. Generally, it will be the lightest, most aerodynamic, and smallest capacity engine available.

I would assume ~$5/gallon of gas for the life of the automobile and 150,000 mile useful life.

Looking at previous years' models and the general trends of major manufacturers, you should be able to get a good grip on depreciation. I'd expect Hyundai's to depreciate faster than Toyotas, etc.

Try to pay in cash. If you can't, I would suggest buying a used car and putting the difference into a CD at a credit union or another healthy investment. Buying a new car with a loan is going to kill through interest and the fact that the loaning institution will want full insurance coverage.

If you have to go for a loan, get the shortest one you can afford. Interest rates are low now, so that is a plus, but the faster you pay off the car the less you spend on interest. Once you are done paying off you car, keep making car payments. If you keep making car payments by putting that cash into an investment, you'll be able to pay in full when it comes time to buy a new car. If you are smart, you'll never have to pay interest again.

Call you insurance companies and get a feeler for expected quotes. Raise your deductible to a few thousand and put enough money into a short-term investment to cover the possibility of an accident. Money will be tied up, but you'll make more in the long run.

Personally, I'd view hypermiling pretty low on the techniques of saving money. When you do get to the point of hypermiling, your best bet will be to slow down to just above torque converter lockup (~45mph), maintain momentum, and pump up LRR tires to max PSI. I'd expect a high of 30mpg and an average of 25mpg.

I don't mean to hand out financial advice, I'm just trying to save you the most money possible.

If you want to learn how to live rich by living smart, read this article.

- LostCause

[8307c4]

As for an 'economical' gas guzzler I would wait until Detroit makes us some, because there's no such thing... 23mpg in an SUV is like me trying to decide between a Bmw 850 and a Ferrari Mondial yet being concerned enough about FE that I'm wondering which 12 cylinder does better...

But with gas just having hit $4 a gallon it is only a matter of time before Detroit does deliver both space and economy... Now it might be more stuff along the lines of underpowered cube minivans such as what we had in the 80's, but to get a car now to me is jumping the gun.

I think you'd save more money keeping what you have, at least for the time being.

[DifferentPointofView]

I still say try out all the cars first and see which you like the best.

[Bror Jace]

bharman10,
I'm not trying to be a wise-ass ... but simply don't get an SUV. Get a car.

When I was a toddler, Mom drove me and my lil' brother around in a VW Beetle and we lived to tell the tale. You'll have to believe me but she wasn't a crappy mother.

Get a mid-sized car (or wagon) with a 4-cylinder engine. Tranny choice is up to you and your wife but I'd pick a standard.

Trust me ... you'll be fine.

[diesel_john]

My mom just traded her 98 caravan 27 MPG for a 07 Exquinox 18.4 MPG, not happy. IMHO, it's a brick.

[boxchain]

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/byclass.htm
and search SUVs. Then search midsize sedans, then search station wagons (which look like hatchbacks oddly enough). Spoiler: for non hybrids, this list is roughly in increasing order for FE.

I would think about a sedan like a camry/accord or a little crossover like a scion or vibe, whichever you think you can fit into

The added height of an SUV kills your FE (bad aero, big heavy tires) and they are too prone to rolling over.

[brucey]

If you want the space of an SUV, look into getting a station wagon. If you want the space and the capability, look into getting a subaru. They're quite capable in anything you'd ever want to take a daily driver into, and I just got 34 mpg on mine, and I've taken it on several jeep trails without much issue. (Flat tire)

[dremd]

1) How much are you looking to spend?
2) How many Children do you have/ are expecting?
3) what is your 50 Mile commute like? ( I see 80% highway, just noting)
4) Are you planning on hypermiling? A little? Drive normal? Like you stole it?
5) Is your wife a "I have to have a BIG car lady"

I'm 6'3" 270 and have no issue at all in the Golf, some small cars absolutely, but it is very comfortable (even on long (500 mile) trips). I'm not necessarily recommending it but I do use it for Child seats with no issue, have only wished it was larger 1 time (5 adults + luggage = bad idea). A Passat wagon TDI gets awesome mpg for its size/ room particularly good highway. If you are in town more a Escape hybrid would be a better choice. The XB fits a 6'~6" 400 lbs friend no issue, his wife basically drove to every car dealership and made him get in every car until she found the smallest car he was totally comfortable in, the Xb was a lot smaller/ more efficient than the next larger vehicle he fit comfortably in.

Answer the above questions (even to yourself) then try and make an informed purchase of your next vehicle.

[Lazarus]

If the choice is only those 3 and it's only about FE I would go with the xB. You can get it in a manual and there was a guy on another website that was getting 40's out of it with just driving techniques.

[Daox]

I'm going to have to agree with Bror Jace. Don't get an SUV. Statistically the safest vehicles are family sedans if that is what you are really after. What else makes you want an SUV?

[i_am_socket]

Another vote for the wagon here. Anything I can do to convince someone that they don't need an SUV is time not wasted.

Any safety feature available in an APC, er.. SUV is available in a sedan/wagon. And thinking of safety, what about the safety of other drivers on the road? SUVs block the view of the road for car-height vehicles while placing headlights almost directly at eye level for the car-height drivers. They also need thousands of dollars of high tech equipment to prevent rolling over with their higher center of gravity (for most drivers; I'd assume a hypermiler wouldn't get into such a situation where it all becomes necessary).

Worst accidents I've ever been in involved SUVs.
1) SUVs lined up on a street corner completely blocking view of oncoming traffic: pulling out enough to see traffic put us into traffic and resulted in my sister's Buick being totalled.

2) Stop and go traffic on the highway, lady commuting with single < 2yo child in the back of an XTerra skids and pushes the car in front of her into my car and then the car in front mine.

3) SUV in an intersection in the opposite direction wanting to make a left turn blocks complete view of rest of the road: my friend coming the other way goes to make a left and I end up with a Taurus in my door.

Unless you're off-roading, you don't need one and then you're better off with a Jeep anyway. Need massive space? Get a pickup truck (and the reason why they've been getting larger and higher is beyond me)

[/rant]

[ebacherville]

Originally Posted by 8307c4

Now it might be more stuff along the lines of underpowered cube minivans such as what we had in the 80's, but to get a car now to me is jumping the gun.

Actually the first gen boxy Plymoth minivans were very good coeficient of drag numbers surprisingly.. shocked me anyways.. they were also light weight for the most part..

[ebacherville]

wagons were the SUV's back before SUV's.. they were the most flexable yet economical choice, i remeber my parrents got a brand new 1983 Chevy cavalier wagon with a five speed in 83.. was great on gas and they hauled HUGE stuff in it, large chest freezers, a huge old fiber glass boat via trailer, full length lumber..

A TDI wagon would be ideal in my opinion.. your going to spend some cash on it however..

My dad was looking at a yaris, but wishes there were some good low cost, high MPG wagons like his old cavalier.. but none exsist.

Actually the best areo design i have seen in a wagon is in a huge one , the dodge magnum has a nice roll on the rear of the roof line.. to bad they don't make them in a compact..

Dodges best MPG vehical is there HUGE diesel sprinter vans, even there little sub compacts only get 32mpg, the sprinter vans are reporting 33-35mpg..

My dad really wanted a dodge for there lifetime warranty, original owner has the entire drive train from bearings cv joints to motor to trans and even 4x4 covered till you get rid of the car.. however 32mpg in there compats isnt steller and he sees fuel getting higher and higher.. My dad runs vehicle's into the ground so he'd be stuck with 32mpg for over 15 years.

[Who]

Brian, a Santa Fe is seriously hard-pressed to get close to 30 mpg on the highway. With your length of commute that would be a major issue - mine's only a couple of miles to the train station. It's a great fit for tall people, which was a requirement for me (6'6 240). It's just too bad Hyundai don't sell the excellent and frugal 2.2 CRD version of it in North America because mileage is the only real downside.

As for engines, the 2.7L might do better mileage-wise under some scenarios but the gearing on the 4A is very low. I haven't seen any real differences on the reported mileage of others compared to the 3.3L with the 5A and it would have to be significant to cover the required timing belt change down the road in the 2.7L. It's very expensive - I think in the $800 range. I had originally agreed to buy the 2.7L but switched to a 3.3L with AWD. The AWD system is the same as what Porsche uses on some of its cars and the mileage impact is minimal. I'd actually recommend the AWD if you are going with an extended powertrain warranty and don't like the feel of FWD. That FWD feeling is more pronounced in larger vehicles.

It's too bad Honda doesn't have an Accord wagon. The newest Accord has finally bucked the trend of terrible front legroom for tall people which most sedans, wagons and hatches share unless you can pony up for a very expensive Euro wagon, and few of them are fuel sippers.