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Old 04-02-2018, 07:36 PM   #1 (permalink)
Eco Storm Chaser
 
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Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Lubbock
Posts: 128

Dory (AKA blue-fish) - '02 Honda Insight
Team Honda
90 day: 65.04 mpg (US)

Red Fish - '93 Nissan 300zx Convertible
90 day: 21.84 mpg (US)

Nemo - '87 Ford Mustang GT
90 day: 27.26 mpg (US)

Sissy - '94 Acura Integra Ls
90 day: 28.46 mpg (US)
Thanks: 13
Thanked 32 Times in 15 Posts
1st gen insight sleeper build thread 2.0

It has been a LONG process but my dead insight rides again. A few years ago my first gen Insight really just fell apart. dead O2sensor ($250), bad syncros in the trans, trans needed an input shaft bearing (mucho denreo), hybrid battery was on its last leg ($2300). the list goes on. It was going to cost more than I paid for the car to get it back into operation. Selling one of my dream cars WAS NOT AN OPTION! So I put it in storage, and began to collect malicious parts to fix the problem.

The car now has a K24A4 from a Honda accord, and an RSX 5 speed trans. I am still tuning, but as it sits, I get around 40mpg at 75 mph.

I still have a TON to do. such as, make the speedometer/temp gauge work and finish the AC ect.

A word of advice to those thinking about a K swap in the insight. DO NOT waist your money on a complete motor mount kit from Innovative Mounts. they do not support there products, nor do they even remotely fit the car. the motor sits so low that the oil pan is ~3" off the ground and is all sorts of crooked (see pics below)

Parts List
Engine (K24A4 2004 Honda accord 89k miles $150 junk yard
2005 Honda civic knuckles with brake calipers and rotors (larger than stock insight peaces.) 65$
new ball joints (for 2005 civic) 45$
1994-2001 manual Acura integra axles from autozone ~$120 (life time warranty for drag racing!!! lol)
K-Kpro $690
TUNED ADJUSTABLE EP3 PULLEY KIT with belt $150
K tuned budget k swap header $250
Motor mounts. good luck
Ball joint adapters for $150 plus machine work, or make your own on a lather
The hardest part was finding the following:
2004 RSX base model
Trans, shiftier cables starter, intermediate shaft, clutch, flywheel, soft clutch hose, wiring harness, and ecu $340 ( I got very lucky, the clutch and pressure plate looked brand new so, I reused them.
I sent the ECU to hondata for KPRO version 4 ($690) but unfortunately, its not street legal.... so this will have to be an offRoad vehicle, or I can use an accord ECU and make a complete 1 off wire-harness and reuse the accord ecu and immobilizer and a MASSIVE PITA due to it being completely undocumented. so, that is the way I did it. for legal reasons.

I reused the the hybrid battery cables to relocate the battery the rear of the car.

Please forgive how dirty the cars is, and the awful picture quality
How crooked the mounts were:


The engine actually sat so far forward that the intake manifold, the alternator, and ac compressor would all hit the core support... how useless.
So with some help from a friend with a C&C plasma table we made a new engine mount, then butchered the trans mounts.

You can see just how much we had to move the motor.





Problem solved.








I made a laptop mount for mu storm chasing gig. It also doubles as a displays for all engine parameters via a USB connection



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Old 04-02-2018, 09:15 PM   #2 (permalink)
Eco Storm Chaser
 
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Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Lubbock
Posts: 128

Dory (AKA blue-fish) - '02 Honda Insight
Team Honda
90 day: 65.04 mpg (US)

Red Fish - '93 Nissan 300zx Convertible
90 day: 21.84 mpg (US)

Nemo - '87 Ford Mustang GT
90 day: 27.26 mpg (US)

Sissy - '94 Acura Integra Ls
90 day: 28.46 mpg (US)
Thanks: 13
Thanked 32 Times in 15 Posts
Belly pan/ rear diffuser

My next goal is to add a .64 6th gear. This is in an effort to lower cursing for MPG and increase top speed! RPM from a 2012 civic sI with following oem Honda part numbers:
24201-PNS-010
24210-PNS-010
24240-PNS-000
24412-PNS-000
24430-PNS-000
23916-PNS-000
23641-PPP-000
23491-RAS-000
23590-RAS-A00
91103-RAS-003
24413-PNS-000

Instead of actually fixing the things that need to be finished such as the speedometer, and AC and temp gauge, I decided to get my priorities strait and attempt to improve fuel economy!!!

The entire under body paneling is made out of 1/8th dibond. It is comprised of two painted sheets of .012" aluminum with a solid polyethylene core. It is VERY durable, strong, lightweight, and once bent, it holds it shape. It can be picked up at any sign shop, and they will usually sell old or damaged sheets very cheaply. can be cut with any wood cutting means easily. I find it to be a much better alternative to coroplast.

They also make a corrugated version that is phenomenally ridged and strong for its size, But it much harder to find used or damaged.

Short road trip before belly pan It should be noted that the MPGuino is not correctly calibrated for the injector size. however, it is pretty close.


Aluminum bolted to to the factory air deflector on the fuel tank.


The panels are all held on with Stainless steel bolts through J clips either through factory push rivet holes or holes drilled in the aluminum brackets that I added that are bolted to factory points



My assistant.







The measured angle of the rear diffuiser is at 5.4 degrees, which is pretty close to the ideal angle in terms of drag reduction according to this paperhttps://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...75389211006924

I have not finished the passenger side belly pan on the car, but all i can say is WOW. what a Huge difference, the car is MUCH more stable at higher speeds and road noise is greatly reduced. I have still yet to do ABA testing but i will keep you all posted.

It is Important to note that I plan on entering this car in 2 competitive Motorsport events namely the Texas Mile, and the Big Bend Open Road Race (120mph GT-3 class)

I have tein adjustable coil-overs and am waiting on some custom springs to be made. these are from a 2005 Civic Ex and should work with custom top hats. and at the moment, its the stock suspension.
My ultimate goal's are to hit 50 mpg HWY and be able to run 180MPH in the standing Mile (safely).

Currently (pre-bellypan) is ~40mpg hwy 145 MPH standing mile (gearing/stability limited) Pretty lofty goals, I know. but we will see!
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Old 04-02-2018, 11:59 PM   #3 (permalink)
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IGL - '04 Saturn Ion
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Holy crap! An actual normal person with a K swapped Insight! Looking good!
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My last Ecotec project...
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Old 04-03-2018, 12:04 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Coastal Southern California
Posts: 4,410

Black and Green - '98 Honda Civic DX Coupe
Team Honda
90 day: 60.02 mpg (US)

Black and Red - '00 Nashbar Custom built eBike
90 day: 3671.43 mpg (US)
Thanks: 1,571
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Great thread. This will be fun to watch. Thanks for the article reference on aero difusser angle affects. The conclusion seems to be a maximum drag reduction benefit at 6 degrees.
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See my car's mod & maintenance thread and my electric bicycle's thread for ongoing projects. I will rebuild Black and Green over decades as parts die, until it becomes a different car of roughly the same shape and color. My minimum fuel economy goal is 55 mpg while averaging posted speed limits. I generally top 60 mpg. See also my Honda manual transmission specs thread.

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Old 04-03-2018, 12:21 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Vermont
Posts: 2,371

Gaptooth - '00 Honda Insight
Team Honda
Gen-1 Insights
90 day: 58.91 mpg (US)

Such Fit - '07 Honda Fit Sport
90 day: 41.27 mpg (US)
Thanks: 782
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If you want to get the RPM down further, there should be 4.058 and 4.00 final drives available for that transmission, as opposed to the 4.389 yours has. I probably would've taken the Accord's transmission too.

Are you still using the factory tire size? You can get Michelin Defenders in 185/70r14 which should fit just fine, it's a common size shared with the Civic, and would be good for another 7.4% RPM reduction.

Are you able to use the stock Integra axles? Are the wheels the same distance apart?

How difficult was it to put the Civic knuckles on?
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Old 04-03-2018, 01:20 PM   #6 (permalink)
Cyborg ECU
 
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Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Coastal Southern California
Posts: 4,410

Black and Green - '98 Honda Civic DX Coupe
Team Honda
90 day: 60.02 mpg (US)

Black and Red - '00 Nashbar Custom built eBike
90 day: 3671.43 mpg (US)
Thanks: 1,571
Thanked 1,220 Times in 817 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ecky View Post
If you want to get the RPM down further, there should be 4.058 and 4.00 final drives available for that transmission, as opposed to the 4.389 yours has. ...
Also, easier than a final drive and more easily reversed for race days is simply a set of rims that are taller and that have taller tires on. On my car's page I have a list of lightweight rims that fit the sixth gen Civic. I believe they all fit first Gen Insights too.
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See my car's mod & maintenance thread and my electric bicycle's thread for ongoing projects. I will rebuild Black and Green over decades as parts die, until it becomes a different car of roughly the same shape and color. My minimum fuel economy goal is 55 mpg while averaging posted speed limits. I generally top 60 mpg. See also my Honda manual transmission specs thread.

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Old 04-03-2018, 01:22 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Vermont
Posts: 2,371

Gaptooth - '00 Honda Insight
Team Honda
Gen-1 Insights
90 day: 58.91 mpg (US)

Such Fit - '07 Honda Fit Sport
90 day: 41.27 mpg (US)
Thanks: 782
Thanked 897 Times in 568 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by California98Civic View Post
Also, easier than a final drive and more easily reversed for race days is simply a set of rims that are taller and that have taller tires on. On my car's page I have a list of lightweight rims that fit the sixth gen Civic. I believe they all fit first Gen Insights too.
I've been playing with doing this same swap, on paper. If I go through it, it will be an "all of the above" type deal.

Even with an aftermarket final drive and the tallest 5th/6th available, the 2.0/2.4 will still be spinning faster (with the engine's factory tire size) than the 1.0L in the Insight at the same speed. Nevermind with smaller wheels.
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Old 04-03-2018, 07:27 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Lubbock
Posts: 128

Dory (AKA blue-fish) - '02 Honda Insight
Team Honda
90 day: 65.04 mpg (US)

Red Fish - '93 Nissan 300zx Convertible
90 day: 21.84 mpg (US)

Nemo - '87 Ford Mustang GT
90 day: 27.26 mpg (US)

Sissy - '94 Acura Integra Ls
90 day: 28.46 mpg (US)
Thanks: 13
Thanked 32 Times in 15 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by 19bonestock88 View Post
Holy crap! An actual normal person with a K swapped Insight! Looking good!
LMFAO!!! Thanks

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ecky View Post
If you want to get the RPM down further, there should be 4.058 and 4.00 final drives available for that transmission, as opposed to the 4.389 yours has. I probably would've taken the Accord's transmission too.

Are you able to use the stock Integra axles? Are the wheels the same distance apart?

How difficult was it to put the Civic knuckles on?
I actually originally had the accord trans, but the trans mounts would not fit.... not even close.I purchased the accord trans for $230 and sold it for 300. It is important to note that went ahead and purchased the rsx parts and sold the accord stuff before I realized that the innovative mounts were awful. I was trying to avoid having to cut and weld all together.

yes, the stock Integra axles are a direct fit. the insight has a narrower wheelbase, but the k20 intermediate shaft (from the rsx or ep3) is also shorter. this would not work with the accord 5sd intermediate shaft unless a custom driver side axel was made. When using the Integra axles, you have to use the driver side axle on the passenger side and vice versa.

I would love to use the European accord 4.058 final drive (and counter shaft) but at ~$600 this out of my price range ATM being back in school and whatnot.

The dream would be to use the 3.4 final drive here but at $1200.... this is a LONG ways out.

For the time being, I will be saving up for a TSX 6speed so i can swap its 1-6 gears onto the rsx 4.38 FD with an LSD of some type... my brand new 175/65r14 Falken's have wheel spin at 75MPH.
This could be cheaper than just doing the 6th gear swap.

I could possibly buy 12 Si+ 6th: 0.647 but thats not much of a change



I would also like to purchase a k24a2 from a 2006-8 TSX as well, an extra 60hp and more compression (10.5 vs 9.7) would be nice. As long as i keep my foot out of it, it could actually help fuel economy



As for the civic knuckles, the MUCH larger brakes fit under the stock wheels, they bolt strait up to the insight struts, provided that you use a small spacer (washers) because the knuckle is ~3mm thinner than the stock ones. The only complication is the fact that the civic and insight ball joints mount differently. The insight has the balljoint in the lower control arm and bolts through the knuckle. (see pic below) the civic goes the other direction.
We decided to use the civic ball joints so that they are actually serviceable and so if need be, I can always run an adjustable ball joint for suspension geometry adjustment. racecar and whatnot. the ball joint inserts i listed in my previous post are nice, but they still require machining of the lower control arms. I purchased some 1.5" bar stock and just turned it down in a lathe.
For some reason Honda decided to make the balljoint into the lower control arm and is non serviceable.


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Old 04-03-2018, 07:45 PM   #9 (permalink)
Eco Storm Chaser
 
Stacygifford's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Lubbock
Posts: 128

Dory (AKA blue-fish) - '02 Honda Insight
Team Honda
90 day: 65.04 mpg (US)

Red Fish - '93 Nissan 300zx Convertible
90 day: 21.84 mpg (US)

Nemo - '87 Ford Mustang GT
90 day: 27.26 mpg (US)

Sissy - '94 Acura Integra Ls
90 day: 28.46 mpg (US)
Thanks: 13
Thanked 32 Times in 15 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ecky View Post
I've been playing with doing this same swap, on paper. If I go through it, it will be an "all of the above" type deal.

Even with an aftermarket final drive and the tallest 5th/6th available, the 2.0/2.4 will still be spinning faster (with the engine's factory tire size) than the 1.0L in the Insight at the same speed. Nevermind with smaller wheels.
The 3.4 FD with the .647 6th gear puts the car at 2307 RPM at 70MPH not bad.
2350 with the 0.659 & the 3.4FD

With the 4.058 FD and the tsx 6th/accord 5th 2803 at 70mph
4.058 FD and the +12 Si 2752

With the tsx 6th and the stock rsx FD of 4.38 puts you at 3022

Im currently at 3318. (with my slightly larger tires) :vomit:
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Old 04-04-2018, 09:16 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Vermont
Posts: 2,371

Gaptooth - '00 Honda Insight
Team Honda
Gen-1 Insights
90 day: 58.91 mpg (US)

Such Fit - '07 Honda Fit Sport
90 day: 41.27 mpg (US)
Thanks: 782
Thanked 897 Times in 568 Posts
What'd you end up doing with fuel pump and lines? Is the Insight's stock fuel pump adequate for 3-4x the peak flow?

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