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Old 01-26-2018, 10:07 PM   #11 (permalink)
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330Wh???

My first gen Insight has (had, it's lost a lot of capacity) a 936Wh battery, and filling that braking downhill was far from impossible.

But.

A 5500lb truck at 30mph has about 62Wh of energy available.

A 5500lb truck at 60 mph has about 249Wh.

You're lucky to get maybe 50% of this back from regen braking. My guess is they're not expecting to get even this, since the weight of the truck will necessitate the friction brakes on most cases. Still, for trucks with such a high base price (we're not talking a Nissan versa here), you would think they would have at least double that.

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Old 01-27-2018, 11:25 PM   #12 (permalink)
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I was thinking about that battery. I'm not great on conversions but isn't that less capacity than a standard car battery? I assume it has the ability to discharge faster but still. I also don't think it has a standard battery just that one. I wonder if that will be a possibility to upgrade even as a aftermarket addon. The electric motor may not be able to handle much more than brief bursts of power as well. One cool thing is there will be a million or more of them in the junkyard at some point. They will be useful in a bunch of other applications as well. Probably just right for an electric conversion on my old Honda Trail 90, or make a sick electric go cart for your kid.
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Old 01-28-2018, 10:13 AM   #13 (permalink)
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In theory a fully size truck battery has about 1.2 kwhr,
However due to peukert at high discharge rates you get maybe 1/10 of that ďusable ď and lifespan would be very poor.

At the end of the day this isnít a real hybrid but just a start stop system
You would get the initial feel of more horsepower but it would quickly taper away

My hope is this system allows the truck to EOC at any speed when in neutral, if it canít keep the fuel off at all times during deceleration it wonít improve fuel economy much by itself

Ah well, baby steps.
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Old 01-28-2018, 03:41 PM   #14 (permalink)
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It might do a good pulse and glide then as well. They did say the 8 speed will now DFCO in all gears where before it would only in 1st and 2nd. It would be really cool if they could program the cruise control to do a simple 10 mph spread pulse and glide best using the engines peak efficiency to accelerate, and then cut fuel and use the Etorque to extend the glide. They also said it will help the 8 cylinder stay in 4 cylinder mode longer and more often. I had a 5.7 Hemi with deactivation and the slightest increase in throttle would drop it back into 8 cylinder mode. I ended up basically letting it lose a little speed to stay in 4 cylinder mode, then go with a moderate throttle to get back up to top speed. I think it did better than just running the cruise but not enough to put up with the trouble. If it would do it for you, that would be great.
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Old 01-28-2018, 07:04 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hersbird View Post
I assume it has the ability to discharge faster but still. I also don't think it has a standard battery just that one.
The articles I've read say it still has a standard 12V battery; the extra battery and hybrid system are 48V.

Yes, it's basically a glorified stop-start system that can also add up to 130 ft-lbs to the engine's output, but it's a start (pun intended). Adding wheel motors and capacitors gets really expensive, really quickly, in an already-expensive vehicle, and I don't see a market ready for that in trucks yet anyway. I don't think even this mild system will be embraced universally.
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Old 01-28-2018, 09:53 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vman455 View Post
Adding wheel motors and capacitors gets really expensive, really quickly, in an already-expensive vehicle, and I don't see a market ready for that in trucks yet anyway.
I actually believe there are reasonable marketing perspectives for full-hybrid trucks. Providing power outlets for electric tools and implements, which may eventually also be lighter than their hydraulic or mechanically-actuated counterparts, would make some sense instead of having to resort to transmission-mounted or crankshaft-mounted PTOs.


Quote:
I don't think even this mild system will be embraced universally.
Even though a full-hybrid system similar to the HSD is in fact more promising in a longer term, this mild-hybrid system doesn't seem so bad at all and might eventually make its way into lower-end vehicles in a way pretty much similar to how 12-volt electrics replaced their old 6-volt counterparts.
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Old 01-29-2018, 05:59 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vman455 View Post
The articles I've read say it still has a standard 12V battery; the extra battery and hybrid system are 48V.
.
I've read that it still has a 12v starter for the first early morning cold startup but that all the 12v system including that starter is powered through a 48 to 12v converter from the 48v battery.
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Old 01-29-2018, 06:05 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cRiPpLe_rOoStEr View Post
I actually believe there are reasonable marketing perspectives for full-hybrid trucks. Providing power outlets for electric tools and implements, which may eventually also be lighter than their hydraulic or mechanically-actuated counterparts, would make some sense instead of having to resort to transmission-mounted or crankshaft-mounted PTOs..
I think they already have the system they need in the Pacifica minivan. That is the same 3.6, I suppose the transverse mounting is wrong. What about sone of those Fiat small unibody pickups other countries get? Sort of like the Honda Ridgeland. What is it called a Toro maybe?
That would be pretty cool as a 4wd plug in hybrid.
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Old 01-29-2018, 06:43 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Quote:
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What about sone of those Fiat small unibody pickups other countries get? Sort of like the Honda Ridgeland. What is it called a Toro maybe?
That would be pretty cool as a 4wd plug in hybrid.
Yes, that's the Toro.

IIRC the 9-speed ZF 9HP transmission used on the Diesel variants and the flexfuel ones fitted with the 2.4L Tigershark engine is already suitable to hybrid applications.
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Old 01-29-2018, 11:02 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vman455 View Post
Yes, it's basically a glorified stop-start system that can also add up to 130 ft-lbs to the engine's output, but it's a start (pun intended). Adding wheel motors and capacitors gets really expensive, really quickly, in an already-expensive vehicle, and I don't see a market ready for that in trucks yet anyway. I don't think even this mild system will be embraced universally.
They will if the OEMs have anything to say about it. When you hear about automakers "electrifying" their entire range this is mostly what they are talking about.

A good review of the tech:
https://jalopnik.com/everything-you-...olt-1790364465

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