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Old 12-16-2016, 01:03 PM   #11 (permalink)
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a lot of three-bangers here in Europe are now with start-stop. Wouldn't be surprised if it's mandatory by 2025...

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Old 12-16-2016, 01:11 PM   #12 (permalink)
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I can see gas engines with start/ stop but not so much with a diesel.
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Old 12-16-2016, 06:15 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grant-53 View Post
I can see gas engines with start/ stop but not so much with a diesel.
Apart from a few Volvo hybrid buses that were tested in my hometown, I still haven't seen any other Diesel fitted with start-stop. My main concern would be about the effects to the particulate filter due to an increased amount of colder starts due to the engine not producing enough heat to promote the regen cycle in-between some shorter runs.
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Old 12-17-2016, 03:50 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MetroMPG View Post
And sample size.

For comparison, on the Mirage forum, we've got 142 owners reporting 3569 fills over 1 million+ miles / 1.6m km.

When broken down by drivetrain type:

1.2L 5MT avg (69 cars) = 44.8 MPG (US) = 5.3 L/100 KM = 53.7 MPG (UK)
1.2L CVT avg (70 cars) = 41.2 MPG (US) = 5.7 L/100 km = 49.4 MPG (UK.)
1.0L 5MT avg (03 cars) = 45.1 MPG (US) = 5.2 L/100 KM = 54.2 MPG (UK)

Euro Mirages are doing better.

However, many of the Euro Mirages come with automatic engine stop/start, where the majority of cars in our (mostly North American) database don't.
Had a look through the data for the Mirage 1.0 and only 5% of the cars have the stop start. It is only in the last year that you could actually buy a stop start 1.0.

In the second post of this thread I have now added a table to show the percentage difference between actual real world consumption and the official claimed NEDC combined consumption for several 1.0 lit 3 cylinder non hybrid cars.
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Old 12-17-2016, 07:56 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fingie View Post
a lot of three-bangers here in Europe are now with start-stop. Wouldn't be surprised if it's mandatory by 2025...
There's no need to make it mandatory, it's the cheapest way OEMs have of reducing official cycle consumption and meeting CO2 restrictions.

There's a difference between universal and mandatory. CATs are universal, but if someone comes up with a better way to meet the same targets, there's nothing to stop them. The rule makers only set the limits, it's up to the engineers as to how they want to meet them.
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Old 12-18-2016, 08:59 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cRiPpLe_rOoStEr View Post
Apart from a few Volvo hybrid buses that were tested in my hometown, I still haven't seen any other Diesel fitted with start-stop. My main concern would be about the effects to the particulate filter due to an increased amount of colder starts due to the engine not producing enough heat to promote the regen cycle in-between some shorter runs.
Stop/ Start is actually more common on diesels. Eg Renault Kangoo and Fiat Doblo have S/S on their diesels, but it's not an option on petrol versions. I think all Euro diesels across the board have it, no doubt because they're all very close to various emissions limits.

I have S/S on my Trafic and while it's early days, I don't seem to be getting a lot of DPF regen cycles. Sitting and idling doesn't do a DPF any good either, the EGT's are low and so it's just filling with soot, it may well be better to stop the engine. Of course, S/S is inhibited during a DPF regen.
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Old 12-18-2016, 01:00 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Old 12-19-2016, 11:23 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MetroMPG View Post
And sample size.

For comparison, on the Mirage forum, we've got 142 owners reporting 3569 fills over 1 million+ miles / 1.6m km.

When broken down by drivetrain type:

1.2L 5MT avg (69 cars) = 44.8 MPG (US) = 5.3 L/100 KM = 53.7 MPG (UK)
1.2L CVT avg (70 cars) = 41.2 MPG (US) = 5.7 L/100 km = 49.4 MPG (UK.)
1.0L 5MT avg (03 cars) = 45.1 MPG (US) = 5.2 L/100 KM = 54.2 MPG (UK)

Euro Mirages are doing better.

However, many of the Euro Mirages come with automatic engine stop/start, where the majority of cars in our (mostly North American) database don't.
Could average highway speeds have something to do with that, however?

What are the 1.0s on Mirage Forum? Euro? Canadian?

Considering the Euro 1.2 is getting economy better than most 1.0s, that kind of matches my experience with the Mirage versus the 1.0 competition... the only 1.0s that match or exceed it locally are the Suzukis, as the Indian (zero star crash rating) Alto is much lighter and the Indian Celerio (better than zero) is just as light but equipped with a good CVT.
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Old 12-19-2016, 11:30 AM   #19 (permalink)
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The 1.0's are all Euro. No 1.0's Mirages in Canada either.

And yes, highway speeds could have a lot to do with it. Also, the CVT owners may (who knows?) be doing more urban driving, lowering their average vs. the manual drivers.
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Old 12-19-2016, 05:37 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Era of Small Engines in Europe Coming to an end

The Era Of Small Engines In Europe Could Be Coming To An End | car News @ Top Speed

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