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Old 06-29-2008, 03:45 PM   #41 (permalink)
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It is possible the flat sides are a benefit. Say you extend them higher and in front and back of the car. You have made an airfoil shape with plates on the ends to keep air from spilling off.


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Old 06-29-2008, 04:26 PM   #42 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Christopher Jordan View Post
This is a VeloKit. It has nearly paralell sides. I could not round it out much (just added 2 more panniers!).

That's what your Green Machine looks like, right Chris? I'd be interested to know what your average and maximum speed is with that vehicle.

Last edited by Peakster; 06-29-2008 at 04:41 PM.
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Old 06-29-2008, 10:06 PM   #43 (permalink)
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There is a program Hull Designer that is used to design boat hulls built out of flat plywood panels. It could also be used to design fairings made of coroplast.

Carlson Design Plotter/Cutters

Here is a short wheelbase recumbent bicycle fairing I designed using this software. The output is this image, plus dxf CAD files with coordinates to mark the coroplast sheets so you can cut out panels.



This fairing is just an example of the output of the program. It looks odd because the bike is so short and it has a high handlebar, so space is needed on top. You need to picture the riders head sticking out above this fairing.

I realize that flat panels are not as aerodynamic as rounded, however this type of fairing would be very easy to build and pretty cheap as well. The software would allow more than just two panels to the side, you can choose any number of panels. I was thinking of zip tying the panels together, then covering the joints with clear packing tape. I would design the fairing about 6" longer than it had to be, then cut it in half behind the rider, and use a hinge at the very front to raise the front half up, and when the front half is down it would overlap 6" over the rear half.

I have used this program to build canoes and small boats, it is very accurate and you definitely get the shape you design. It takes a while to get used to, and it would be worthwhile to build a few models. I usually take the output in dxf format and open it with Autocad, and then draw a 1' x 1' grid on it and take the coordinates of the upper line and lower line of the panels every one foot. Draw the outline using a long bendable straightedge, cut the panels out and stitch them together.

Here are some boatbuilding outputs from Hull Designer:


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Old 06-29-2008, 10:21 PM   #44 (permalink)
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No tear drop that and you got a very easy to construct body and good areo dynamics..
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Old 06-29-2008, 10:23 PM   #45 (permalink)
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I actually have be recreating the Aptera design in that Hull designer with good results.. however i dont have a image of it as of now..
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Old 06-29-2008, 10:27 PM   #46 (permalink)
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Quote:
There is a program Hull Designer that is used to design boat hulls built out of flat plywood panels. It could also be used to design fairings made of coroplast.
I don't understand the output.
Is each of those segments a flat panel with no bend or twist? Or does the program unbend segments and give the pattern to cut on a flat sheet?
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Old 06-29-2008, 10:29 PM   #47 (permalink)
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fhere is a snap o the hulls program Aptera design I made.
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Old 06-29-2008, 10:33 PM   #48 (permalink)
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Gopher (aka- go fer...) - '95 Aspire 2dr hatch

E (electric/HPV) - Pod - '05 Velomobile EV/HPV

"Green Machine" - '08 Custom color RS

Big Red - '00 Mountain - Trike rd. & bl. & chrm.

City-EL - '94 Targa YL/BK
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Originally Posted by ebacherville View Post
thats tempting, however i think for duplicability id like to use "off the shelf" items that are easily available to everyone.. but im sure people could modify a they see fit..
Equal opportunity- get a B I G shelf

www.wesleychurch.info/velomobile/ad.htm
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Old 06-29-2008, 10:43 PM   #49 (permalink)
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I don't understand the output.
Is each of those segments a flat panel with no bend or twist? Or does the program unbend segments and give the pattern to cut on a flat sheet?
The images I showed were the part of the program where you can drag the lines around to get the hull shape you want. When it looks good, you can select a button and it will generate the flat panel shapes. It outputs them several ways, visually on the screen and also a dxf CAD file that Autocad can open up.
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Old 06-29-2008, 10:51 PM   #50 (permalink)
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here is a snap of the hulls program Aptera design I made.
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

wow very nice!
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Old 06-29-2008, 11:01 PM   #51 (permalink)
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Gopher (aka- go fer...) - '95 Aspire 2dr hatch

E (electric/HPV) - Pod - '05 Velomobile EV/HPV

"Green Machine" - '08 Custom color RS

Big Red - '00 Mountain - Trike rd. & bl. & chrm.

City-EL - '94 Targa YL/BK
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peakster View Post
That's what your Green Machine looks like, right Chris? I'd be interested to know what your average and maximum speed is with that vehicle.
My trikes are both green. That is a "lime" green, but my unpainted hard-shell is an "avocado green (with gold kevlar weavings).

CA. and most states have ridiculous top speed limits on powered bicycles. I hit 30 mph easily going downhill before the motors with either one. now the top speed is about 20 mph unassisted, but if I assist pedaling like crazy- it barely hits 25 mph.

That was great how you enlarged my VeloKit photo! The small photo below is the older brother!
Attached Images
File Type: jpg E-Pod.jpg (55.5 KB, 25 views)
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Old 06-30-2008, 01:18 AM   #52 (permalink)
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High School Bike - '98 Typhoon

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Now tear drop that and you got a very easy to construct body and good aerodynamics..
The model is tear-dropped in design, however the rear 'wings' help disguise it :



Now... if only I knew how to weld an efficient frame...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Christopher Jordan View Post
CA. and most states have ridiculous top speed limits on powered bicycles... the top speed is about 20 mph unassisted, but if I assist pedaling like crazy- it barely hits 25 mph.
What are the speed restrictions specifically? Somehow I was thinking you could reach 30-mph easily unassisted in that fainter-green one.

Last edited by Peakster; 06-30-2008 at 01:38 AM.
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Old 06-30-2008, 10:44 AM   #53 (permalink)
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yeah each state has there own diffrent laws/rules.. However.. rules were made to be broken.. and if all else fails just license it as a motorcycle.. 3 wheels is considered a motorcycle.

My states laws say 30 mph is the max you can travel.. but they would have to catch me... LOL
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Old 06-30-2008, 12:03 PM   #54 (permalink)
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Toyauto Pickup - '94 Pickup 2WD
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Another 3 wheel car design: Sceadu

Sceadu Design
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Old 06-30-2008, 02:31 PM   #55 (permalink)
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Gopher (aka- go fer...) - '95 Aspire 2dr hatch

E (electric/HPV) - Pod - '05 Velomobile EV/HPV

"Green Machine" - '08 Custom color RS

Big Red - '00 Mountain - Trike rd. & bl. & chrm.

City-EL - '94 Targa YL/BK
Quote:
Originally Posted by skyl4rk View Post
Another 3 wheel car design:]Sceadu Design[/url]
Amazing! I e-mailed Sceadu several years ago about building those here in CA., but cost of living and obtaining space to build those vehicles was terrible compared to AZ. Too late now; but news of this machine continuing is very interesting.

Instead we get a fleet of GoCar 50cc rental 3-wheelers in San Francisco, CA. Not aerodynamic at all, but maybe a start!

My E-Pod is a rounded 30" front 9' back to 1/2" wide rear tail. I sure wish Sceaudu or GoCar would try that. However; my Green Machine ignores curving sides, but it still works!
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Old 06-30-2008, 03:38 PM   #56 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peakster View Post
The model is tear-dropped in design, however the rear 'wings' help disguise it :



Now... if only I knew how to weld an efficient frame...



What are the speed restrictions specifically? Somehow I was thinking you could reach 30-mph easily unassisted in that fainter-green one.
I like the model is it yours ?

It really needs to be a tear-drop though in plan view as well , slope to rear should be 12 degrees to get optimum benifit but it does not need to taper to a point as long as it is cut off with a sharp edge much like it looks now [ search Karma back ]
regards paul
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Old 06-30-2008, 06:23 PM   #57 (permalink)
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Gopher (aka- go fer...) - '95 Aspire 2dr hatch

E (electric/HPV) - Pod - '05 Velomobile EV/HPV

"Green Machine" - '08 Custom color RS

Big Red - '00 Mountain - Trike rd. & bl. & chrm.

City-EL - '94 Targa YL/BK
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peakster View Post

What are the speed restrictions specifically? Somehow I was thinking you could reach 30-mph easily unassisted in that fainter-green one.
Shaved off about 15 mph right away, both were faster but in spurts. Max is 20 mph with motors alone. Used to go faster just pedaling; but I was not consistent. I put a very large front chain ring in front to compensate on the E-Pod (like an overdrive).

More pics/dartboard material- back, back, rt/front, nose to nose
Attached Images
File Type: jpg VeloKit back.jpg (32.0 KB, 7 views)
File Type: jpg E-Pod back.jpg (29.7 KB, 6 views)
File Type: jpg E-Pod right frot.jpg (37.7 KB, 15 views)
File Type: jpg both- nose to nose.jpg (25.3 KB, 10 views)
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Old 06-30-2008, 08:21 PM   #58 (permalink)
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Tadpole plans

AtomicZombie - StreetFox Tadpole Trike
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Old 07-01-2008, 10:20 PM   #59 (permalink)
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How difficult is it to weld a frame? Can you cut the parts by hand with an angle grinder? It seems like the angles would be very difficult to cut accurately. What kind of welder would do the job? What is the cheapest welder that will do the job?
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Old 07-02-2008, 02:35 AM   #60 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skyl4rk View Post
How difficult is it to weld a frame? Can you cut the parts by hand with an angle grinder? It seems like the angles would be very difficult to cut accurately. What kind of welder would do the job? What is the cheapest welder that will do the job?
Hi there

If you buy the book :-

AtomicZombie - Bicycle Builder's Bonanza

It answers all your questions and provides bike plans.

This book has the trike plans in it :-

AtomicZombie - Bicycle Builder's Bonanza

I have the first book which is excellent , the second book has only just been published and I will be getting it shortly.

If cars are more your style then this book :-

Amazon.com: Build Your Own Sports Car for as Little as £250 and Race It!, 2nd Ed.: Ron Champion: Books

will show you how to build a chassis and then a full car.

regards Paul
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