a 50cc or electric mini car project?

[ebacherville]

Any one interested in trying to develop and enclosed 50cc car.. somthing that can be used in many climates yet still very efficient.. my goal would be 150mpg room for one and a small load , 50cc to stay with in most state codes for motorized bikes mopeds etc.. and 3 wheels to make it a motor cycle if licenced.. My state, like many, has a 50cc 30mph limit but then no licence is needed to drive it or plate needed on it.. and able to commute 30 miles in it.

low cost and DIY project..

Any one want to try to brainstorm on this..

Basically i was thinking like a enclosed trike kind of like the twike car or velo.. but assisted by either electric or very small gas engine for range.

[SVOboy]

I've got an engine if anyone needs it.

[ebacherville]

I was actually thinking of getting a Lifan 50cc engines, there a clone of the old Honda cub motors, with a built in transmission , they even have one model available with reverse and electric start.. there only about $250 and that would make a sweet power plant for a micro car. Full gears automatic clutch on them and reverse , a real 12v charging system and electric start.

With 50cc having gears is pretty important..

Now you could do a bicycle gearing system and have gears etc.. but the reverse and electric system and start would be rather complex to rig up , a ready made power plant like these small honda clones would make it far easier.

With a 30mph cruising speed a radio might be nice to have as my commute would be alot longer at 30 than 55.. not to mention headlights and brake lights and signal for saftly to truly make it a micro car , instead of a go kart

[ebacherville]

here would be a good start for a design for the framework..:


Shell and frame design?


Non tadpole design.. simpler to design we dont need the lean function at sub 50mph speeds..

[AXMonster]

The Peel P50 made in the 60's is great.

Shown here on UK's Top Gear programme in a very funny light

Funniest Top Gear video EVER! (Jeremy Clarkson in the Peel P50) - AutoblogGreen

[SVOboy]

Originally Posted by ebacherville

I was actually thinking of getting a Lifan 50cc engines, there a clone of the old Honda cub motors, with a built in transmission , they even have one model available with reverse and electric start.. there only about $250 and that would make a sweet power plant for a micro car. Full gears automatic clutch on them and reverse , a real 12v charging system and electric start.

With 50cc having gears is pretty important..

Now you could do a bicycle gearing system and have gears etc.. but the reverse and electric system and start would be rather complex to rig up , a ready made power plant like these small honda clones would make it far easier.

With a 30mph cruising speed a radio might be nice to have as my commute would be alot longer at 30 than 55.. not to mention headlights and brake lights and signal for saftly to truly make it a micro car , instead of a go kart

Well, I have a 50cc motor and 2-speed cvt transmission already, , if you want it

[ebacherville]

Originally Posted by SVOboy

Well, I have a 50cc motor and 2-speed cvt transmission already, , if you want it

CVT is that from a scooter or somthing?

[SVOboy]

Yessir. Honda Metropolitan scooter,

[ttoyoda]

how about a 3 wheeled VW 1L body style

vw 1l - Google Image Search

[ebacherville]

Originally Posted by ttoyoda

how about a 3 wheeled VW 1L body style

vw 1l - Google Image Search

Yeah the fighter pilot seating style lessens frontal area for sure

[ebacherville]

Originally Posted by SVOboy

Yessir. Honda Metropolitan scooter,

thats tempting, however i think for duplicability id like to use "off the shelf" items that are easily available to everyone.. but im sure people could modify a they see fit..

[SVOboy]

Originally Posted by ebacherville

thats tempting, however i think for duplicability id like to use "off the shelf" items that are easily available to everyone.. but im sure people could modify a they see fit..

It is a common scooter and engine, much more so than the lifan, but I guess you can't get honda crate 50cc motors?

[ttoyoda]

Yeah the fighter pilot seating style lessens frontal area for sure

I would argue it also is easy to make the body style look cool. And for many, many people, the most important thing is how it looks, so if you are thinking of making this into a product...

[ebacherville]

not thinking a product , more a open source plans for alternative transportation..

[ebacherville]

how about a simplified mini version of the aptera..

[skyl4rk]

I have been doing some research on how to put a tadpole trike together with a motored bicycle engine, and then add a coroplast fairing. This could legally be a moped in MI.

Here is a good thread: My next project - Tadpole Trike - Motorized Bicycle Forum - MotoredBikes.com: The LARGEST Bike Engine Forum on the net!

I think I could put one together for about $3k. I am kind of up in the air over electric or ICE, but either one could work, it just depends on if you plan to use the vehicle and stop every 50 miles to charge or if you want to do long distance travelling.

I think the Staton, Golden Eagle Bicycle Engine or Dax Titan four cycle gas motor kits would all work good, providing at least mid 30's mph and around 200mpg, possibly better with a fairing and hypermiling. If you need faster than that, then you would need to register as a motorcycle and might as well go with something like a Lifan 70 with a three speed transmission, that will give you about 45 mph if geared right.

I am not sure how well this vehicle would fit in with today's traffic, it is wide and will take up a lane, but cannot keep up with traffic on uphills.

One hint on how to acquire a tadpole trike, go to crazedlist.org and get their search function working and do searches for "tadpole" throughout your region. There are numerous tadpoles out there for $1000 or less. A 26" rear wheel will be easiest to add a bicycle motor kit to but other sizes can be worked out as well.

[LostCause]

All you need to care about is weight, stability, and visibility. If you want to plod around at 30mph, I'd put a lot of effort into making the car visible. Aerodynamics mean little anywhere a 50cc can be legitimately used.

A good, wild example is the rolling egg...

Squibb's Moonbeam



The cheapest, easiest way to go is a scooter fairing. The engineering is done for you.



Just a thought.

- LostCause

[ebacherville]

yeah the moon beam is a great example. really all that needed is a enclosed space that fairly easy to enter .. I think the easiest would be a small version of the smart car ..

however a recumbent riding position would eliminate lots of frontal area.. and at 30 wind resistance may not be a huge factor but could mean the difference of 30mph to 35mph with a small motor.

A faired scooter reall doesnt offer much more than a scooter in general , the tipping over factor and stability could be huge in bad weather.

[ebacherville]

Originally Posted by SVOboy

It is a common scooter and engine, much more so than the lifan, but I guess you can't get honda crate 50cc motors?

the lifan motors are exact knockoffs of the Honda's .. closest thing you can get to a Honda crate motor..

[ebacherville]

one consideration is larger diamiter the tire the smother the ride and less rolling resistance.. i found some 26" rims for carts that would work well and provide very economical tire replacements.. AKA mountain bike tires..

Northern Industrial Tire/Wheel — 26 in., Spoked | Pneumatic | Northern Tool + Equipment