5th generation civic hatchback - improving aerodynamics

[MetroMPG]

No, no! Retractable landing gear!

[RP-CLMBR]

Hi this is my first day on here and I have just finished reading all the threads since feb or so about your amazing progress I have a 88 crx hf recently purchased w/287000 miles and i want to try some of your mods very impressed with the mods my father (rip) did a fuel mod on a 81 toyota starlet rear wheel drive back in 1990 and with only mecanical mods and driving tecniqe we made a trip from east tx through the montains of north eastern ok
and back to tulsa and back through dal to livingston and he clocked 57.9 and when we got back mom had gotten 11.6 in my 84 chev 350 going to town and back a few times she had spent more on gas than we did for the whle trip some of his mods were ,larger alt. pully, cessna mixture controls on dash,
spring clips to hold open pads for front brakes, adjustable backpresure on staight pipe exhaust, no external mirrows,taller skinnier rear drive wheels and tires, any way when mom told us her milage while we were gone we both fell down laughing tell we cryed and when I got to your hi est milage thread you made me laugh, and I had a special tear in the corner of my eye, THANKS
KEEP UP THE GREAT PROGRESS, you guys are alot like my Dad was he was a mecanical engineer with patrolium opp,and he would talk right over my head and not miss a lick, but I can catch on to some of it, just slow on the math, ps I think that if you would detune your motor with leaner intake and reprogamed injector on times and higher btdc advanctimes you would be able to lean lug the engine at a more open trottle position that you are trying to achive with the wai basicly you are telling computer to lean the on times by creating a hot mat it would be more efficient to have a cooler intake temp and to tell the computer it is warmer by mat placement or mabe a 100 pt varriable block resisttor you can find one on any obsolite oscilliscope at many auto shops that thjey havent used in 15- 20yrs but you will need a exauhst temp in cock pit so as not to damage (burn) a valve, the map and the mass out of an integra might also help as they have the precious metal windings and more accurate but it will only take one reading per koer drive cycle and I saw you ran across that in one of your earlier threads so for long multi elivation trips you will have to "re-start" the computer must think you are starting a new trip after each meaning full ellevation change wow you kept me on the computer all day sorry I am a chatter box like a school girl the amount of time and effort that you have given this is asstonishng sorry for such a long response feel like I walked through the last six months in one days reading Great work be carefull out there, lol

[Stan]

Awesome story, RP-CLMBR! The funny thing is that the cars with the oldest technology and worst fuel economy are often the ones that benefit the most from mods. Stan

[bryn]

Originally Posted by AndrewJ

Wonder what the next mod is gonna be??????

have you shaved your eyebrows for ac off/windows down drag reduction?

[RP-CLMBR]

Ha Ha I try to drive at night with windows up and blowerless vents on but then again that mono brow is atracting the lookers, mabe plucking is in order, yea Stan I dont think
I will ever double the epa mpg on my 88 crx HF that would be 112 mpg not I have only gotten the est 56 once, not like Andrew j where he more than doubled it Wow

[larryrose11]

AndrewJ,
About your beltless alternator. I noticed that in some of your posts of have some % beltless. It the belt physically removed, or are you just disabling the field windings? Physically removing and replacing the belt seems difficult.

[MetroMPG]

Larry, he's running belt-less. Have a look here for his explanation: 5th generation civic hatchback - improving aerodynamics

Maybe he'll follow my lead (oops! no pun intended) and snip the wire between the alt and the battery...

(Once he gets settled in. I think Andrew recently relocated.)

[gildo4realdo]

This is my first post but I've been reading ecomodder.com for awhile (just haven't had a reason to post) but now I do have a question. I like the level of detail that Andrew J. has done (I think we should all take a lesson from this) but I want to know some about his driving techniques. I've been thinking about making some skirt/air dam/HAI (probably not unbelt the alternator though) mods like andrews but I really want to know that it's worth the time and effort.

Andrew, have you been doing any extreme driving techniques to get your 60+ mpg tanks (pulse and glide, etc.). I've tried reading through everything to see but you've only made reference to the pulse and glide once that I noticed however I did see where you said your kill switch went out so I was curious.

I just want to know that if these mods are done, I'll get the results you're seeing without have to make drastic changes to driving styles. Although I do realize driving style is very important, I just can't look past the safety hazards of the pulse and glide stuff, so I want to be sure it's not involved with any of the gains you've seen before I set out to make mods to my car.

Thanks for the pictures and data, you and basjoos have really helped document and prove out the benefits of your mods. Detroit can't argue with data.

[larryrose11]

gildo4realdo,
Most of us conservative drivers (hypermiler) are just that. Driving slow and steady, accelerating slowly, lots of coasting. Nothing crazy like breaking the law, or putting ourselves at risk. Such as: When Im costing down to a light, If there are people coming up behind me, Ill just turn on the hazzard lights, and they go racing by to the red light. I arrive at the light just after it turns green.
I would guess that of the 30% FE gain I got from driving style, year average (it gets cold here in metro Detroit, affects areo, warm-up) the first 20 % was just gentle driving, timing lights, and learning about your car. the last 10 % is from engine off coasting (EOC). You can get an aditional 10% from Pulse and Glide (P&G), which can be quite handy depending on your rout, such as downhills. Unless your a scientist or an engineer (I am), or similarly lie minded, it may be difficult for you to modify your driving style 1 attribute at a time consistently over a tank to get the results. This is what I did before I got mt Scangage 2. It was a pain, but I was committed. Once I got my scnaguage 2, life became MUCH easier. My has paid for itself several times over, mostly because you can pull error codes when something goes wrong, and it is a universal devise. It is an invaluable tool when experimenting to find out what works and what doesn't. Instant feedback on engine operation, Trip averages, day averages, tank averages and such.
Larry

[MetroMPG]

Originally Posted by gildo4realdo

Although I do realize driving style is very important, I just can't look past the safety hazards of the pulse and glide stuff.

First, I'd like to counter the claim that P&G is inherently hazardous. That's a misconception/generalization. Done by a competent driver in an appropriate vehicle, in appropriate circumstances, it's no more dangerous than any other of the myriad "normal" driving techniques used to get where we're going.

I think I can speak for Andrew and tell you that, yes, he uses P&G and engine-off coasting (EOC) quite a lot. As larryrose11 correctly pointed out, technique is the path to the largest fuel economy gains.

That's not to say the mods aren't helping significantly on their own. I think it's safe to say that driven at a constant highway speed (ie. no special techniques), Andrew's mods may represent roughly a 20% improvement over his car's stock configuration. (Note that the alternator delete mod represents a significant chunk of that total.)

FYI, I posted a breakdown of "mods vs. technique" for my car here: 2006 retrospective (there's more where that came from) - MetroMPG.com

Are mods worth 20% alone worth doing? I suppose the answer depends on your own particular criteria for return on investment of time/resources.