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Old 04-06-2014, 07:34 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Aero of teardrop on its side?

I'm considering building a velomobile and have a question about the shapes. Typically they are a 3 dimensional teardrop. I however am looking at building a 2 dimensional teardrop, so it would be aerodynamic from the top view, but essentially a rectangle from the side.

Do I lose anything by having the airflow go around the sides? The bottom would remain flat, which seems like it would be good against the ground plane.

The advantage of this shape would be two fold. 1, ease of construction. I could use flat aluminum plate for each side, top, and bottom.
2. I may add a motor and solar to the flat top side. Solar can recharge power for a velomobile in a few hours.

Any data on this? The templates all go the "wrong" way.

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Old 04-07-2014, 11:00 AM   #2 (permalink)
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The problem is the air isn't going to go only where you want or decide it should go.

What's going to happen is the air on the sides will travel around this really sexy curve shape, the air above and below straight across.

It's going to take longer to go around (air at sides), the air on top will not be traveling at the same speed, there will be air pressure differences between each side and the top/bottom.

These pressure differences will cause air to be drawn to the low pressure areas, and as it does this it will be over distance which in turn causes a swirling or vortex.

The vortex is a funnel of twisting air which results in high drag once air flow further out from the body in motion contacts or interacts with it.

Your design sounds like an old soap box derby car, which I'm sure at the speed it operates at does okay as the vortexes are not too large or violent. However if you want to compete with the Velomobile, you are going to end up looking like the Velomobile.

I'd like to see a sketch or diagram of your design, the devil is in the details, and where your head is and it's treatment is rather important in the scheme of things.
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Old 04-07-2014, 11:22 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Probably works quite well:

Mochet

1933:

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Old 04-07-2014, 11:46 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Maybe a really aerodynamic helmet would help?

This Week in CFD | Another Fine Mesh


The S-Works+McLaren TT | RKP



WIND TUNNEL TESTING IN TEXAS
Derby Tech - January/February, 1990
by Bruce Finwall
http://derby.mypalmer.com/techinfo/d...h/windtunl.htm
Quote:
On January 2 and 3, 1990 some interesting observations were made during tests of soap box derby racers in the Texas A&M University subsonic, closed-circuit wind tunnel. Six of the top cars in the country (3 seniors and 3 juniors) were involved in a total of 48 separate tests. The following is a summary of what was found.

Quote:
Cody Robertson’s ‘88 racer had the least drag of all junior cars tested.
I like the stability of this design below.


SUNDAY, APRIL 02, 2006
Extreme Gravity Car!


Quote:
Conceptually, not much has changed since the first event was staged in 1934: Build a small, simple race car according to tightly constrained rules, and coast down a racetrack powered by nothing more complicated than gravity. However, a lot has changed in the design of the cars, as evidenced by Volvo's "Aria", the car that won the latest extreme gravity car race!
http://www.swedespeed.com/news/publi...ticle_626.html

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1977 Porsche 911s Targa
1998 Chevy S-10 Pick-Up truck
1989 Scat II HP Hovercraft

Chin Spoiler:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/off-t...effective.html

Rear Spoiler Pick Up Truck
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/off-t...xperiment.html

Roof Wing
http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...1-a-19525.html

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Old 04-07-2014, 12:07 PM   #5 (permalink)
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For context, these are some old posts on the topic I and others made in another forum back in 2010.

Random Picture Thread - Page 207 - Boat Design Forums
Quote:
Originally Posted by kach22i View Post
I saw a red and white striped one of these downtown Ann Arbor today, parked on the sidewalk with the regular bikes.

It is so cool in person....bet it floats too, just needs an outrigger.
Velomobile
MikesBike.net




Random Picture Thread - Page 207 - Boat Design Forums
Quote:
Originally Posted by Angélique View Post
That velomobile is a Dutch designed Velomobiel.nl Quest built under license by the Canadian Bluevelo. They are HPV's (Human Powered Vehicles).

Below some velomobiles from Europe....


Velomobiel.nl Quest

-
Here the designer working on the Velomobiel.nl Mango plug.

This Quest is from Holland.................



And here a Magazine cover..............



---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This 214 MPG Super-Aerodynamic Modified Honda is from the same designer.

Pay attention to the design process . . ! ! !







Here's an article about it.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Milan is German Velomobile (HPV).




[YOUTUBE]<object width="960" height="745"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/rN7W1I7YsMY&hl=nl_NL&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/rN7W1I7YsMY&hl=nl_NL&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="960" height="745"></embed></object>[/YOUTUBE]


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The WAW is a Belgian Velomobile (HPV).





And see this WAW in Norway . .

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

More velomobile companies are linked here.

Cheers!
Angel
Quote:
Originally Posted by Angélique View Post
No it rides over the water . .



Leaving port . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .






[YOUTUBE]<object width="960" height="745"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/f4lGqoyJ_xc&hl=nl_NL&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/f4lGqoyJ_xc&hl=nl_NL&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="960" height="745"></embed></object>[/YOUTUBE]


This one is in Norway.
[YOUTUBE]<object width="960" height="745"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/O21bVeTChZE&hl=nl_NL&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/O21bVeTChZE&hl=nl_NL&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="960" height="745"></embed></object>[/YOUTUBE]


Cheers,
Angel
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1977 Porsche 911s Targa
1998 Chevy S-10 Pick-Up truck
1989 Scat II HP Hovercraft

Chin Spoiler:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/off-t...effective.html

Rear Spoiler Pick Up Truck
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/off-t...xperiment.html

Roof Wing
http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...1-a-19525.html
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Old 04-07-2014, 12:10 PM   #6 (permalink)
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You should help him fab it up then.
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Old 04-07-2014, 12:18 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Lee View Post
You should help him fab it up then.
No you should, aren't you are the one with the FWD bike, chainsaw powered wasn't it?

I'd like to see you put a skin on that thing Frank.

Seriously.
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Architect, Artist and Designer of Objects

1977 Porsche 911s Targa
1998 Chevy S-10 Pick-Up truck
1989 Scat II HP Hovercraft

Chin Spoiler:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/off-t...effective.html

Rear Spoiler Pick Up Truck
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/off-t...xperiment.html

Roof Wing
http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...1-a-19525.html
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Old 04-07-2014, 12:22 PM   #8 (permalink)
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FWD, but no ICE.

OP wanted easy fab. That's a reasonable requirement, especially if it means a completed project vs a stillborn one.

The old Mochet quads were skinned with plywood.
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Old 04-07-2014, 03:36 PM   #9 (permalink)
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2-D 'Template'

Here is a symmetrical wing section of minimum drag (center section).Any 'shorter' or 'longer' and drag goes up.
If anything,you'd go longer.
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Old 04-07-2014, 03:58 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Lee View Post
OP wanted easy fab.
This looks pretty easy (see below).

Endless-sphere.com &bull; View topic - Aerodynamics


It would help to know if the original poster already has a Velomobile trike frame already fabricated up.

If not then the yellow recumbent above may be an option.

I found the comments below from the same page as the yellow one to be quite interesting.

Endless-sphere.com &bull; View topic - Aerodynamics
Quote:
A body on a trike is good because you are not pushed around by side winds so much. IMO, Velomobiles are too low for in city commuting. A trike commuter with a taller stance (eyes at least at same height as the drivers of cars) would work well, but then you start getting more looks from the local authorities...

I'm just sticking with the non-faired recumbent for now as that what seems like the best solution (for me!).

-Warren.
K-Vette may find this little project of mine (see below) interesting, it's 1/2 of what he first proposed. You can skip putting all the holes in it.

Fireplace acoustic absorber for enhancement of the center stage


I've considered building a small one person fishing pontoon boat using the same form and techniques (+ covered in fiberglass cloth & resin). I might build a scale test model this summer to test the waters.

NOTE: Fan-Fold insulation is much thinner and lighter than what I used above (as used on my hovercraft). However even in the thickness shown above, scoring of the insulation was not necessary to bend or arc it. In addition, be weary of the weight of glues and fasteners.

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George
Architect, Artist and Designer of Objects

1977 Porsche 911s Targa
1998 Chevy S-10 Pick-Up truck
1989 Scat II HP Hovercraft

Chin Spoiler:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/off-t...effective.html

Rear Spoiler Pick Up Truck
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/off-t...xperiment.html

Roof Wing
http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...1-a-19525.html

Last edited by kach22i; 04-07-2014 at 04:13 PM..
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