Almost Got a ticket last night

[KJSatz]

My personal rule thumb on the cops and getting pulled over is, if they light of the Christmas tree pull over pretty quickly, shut down the engine, lower the driver window 3-5 inches (it's harder for them to pretend to smell "something" to justify a crazy search then), and put my hands at 10 and 2. Any passengers are told during this prep time not to say anything. If LEO asks if I know why they pulled me over, I say "Why did you?" Or if they open with some other line, I ask "Why did you pull me over, officer?" Don't admit anything or say anything else crazy, just cooperate in giving them license/reg and whatnot. I'll even get out of the car if they insist (first, "Why is that necessary, officer?" and then if they get all-upons about it), but lock the doors behind you ("out of habit" if they ask). Say "I don't consent to any search" if they make a move (though they are allowed a pat-down if there is probable cause you might have a weapon...something which is abused to be certain, to our detriment). If they start on some crazy line ask "Am I allowed to leave now, officer?" and of course they can't detain you so they'll give you your ticket for whatever and off you go to court if you want.

Actually I haven't been pulled over yet, so I am not sure how on the script I would be able to stay....

Watched the ACLU videos in driver's ed w00t.

[claytori]

I just came across this thread, and the story in the original post is almost identical to an incident I experienced back in the late '80's. I was driving home after having dinner at my sister's apartment. The route took me onto an elevated freeway with a speed limit of 90kph (55mph). It was about 10:00 at night and there was very little traffic. Soon after I merged onto the road, a pair of headlights approached from behind at very high speed and ended up about 3' from my bumper. The lanes on either side were open for passing. The lights stayed at that distance for some time. I was driving at the speed limit, and began to slow down very slowly. I had no idea at that time whether the driver of the car was a cop or a drunk or a crazy person. Then I noticed a cast of red on my dash board, and realized that it was a cop and he had put on the roof lights. He was so close that I could not see the actual lights in my rear view mirror because they were cut off by the roof. I stopped and the cop came and spoke with me. I received neither ticket nor warning nor explanation of why I had been stopped. He asked me how fast I was going. I answered at the limit.

[equation112]

well.. THAT was a stupid question on his part... since he was obviously at your bumper for some time looking to intentionally freak you out.

next time a cop does that to me I am going to have to ask him 'sir, if I had had to slam on my brakes for some reason, you would have been at fault in the accident... do you realize the position you are putting yourself in? that tactic you used is the kind of thing one would expect to see from a drunk driver, not a law enforcement officer.' let him chew on that...

hell on my way home last night a police officer cut directly across the front of a minivan (from right to left to get into the median emergency lane where another officer had apparently pulled someone else over - he didnt want either me or the van he cut off) just a few car lengths in front of me on I-95 - this was AFTER I had observed this officer with his light bar ON speeding up on me from the rear for at least a mile. all he had to do was fall in behind me and pull off to the side... but no, he HAD to save 2 seconds (if in deed he actually saved any time at all) by speeding up and cutting off the minivan with barely a hair's breadth of clearance, almost causing the van to shove its' nose up his tailpipe. btw, the other cruiser also had its' light bar on, so its' location was clearly visible from over a mile away. the cop had no other traffic to contend with, so he could have easily pulled into the emergency lane at any time. he was looking to be a D**k.

and they say ricers are bad.

[jdwave]

We could all come up with Police horror stories, I have a few myself.

But I certainly have an incredible amount of respect for them.

Dad's a cop, Dad's Dad, and so on.

My fathers favorite line is, "Call me a Pig if I act like one."

It's just life, sometimes you run into good people, sometimes good people on bad days, and sometimes you run into genuine "not-so-good" people.

And I will tell you, after many conversations with my father, cops will try to make their quota.

Just doing their jobs, you know?

But I will tell you, my Dad works with a few jerks, as well.

-Josh

[Thalass]

Originally Posted by trikkonceptz

...a whole bunch of stuff

I'm wondering how exactly you were told to walk to the cop's car. Was it the whole "pulls out his gun, shouts at you over the megaphone to open the door from the outside, then get out slowly and walk backwards towards him" thing?

[dcb]

Originally Posted by equation112

...hell on my way home last night a police officer cut directly across the front of a minivan...I had observed this officer with his light bar ON speeding up on me from the rear for at least a mile...

Why were you guys in the way of an emergency vehicle to begin with?!?

[bodyshop]

Originally Posted by garys_1k

He probl'y thought you were drunk. They look for too-slow driving as a sign of being overly cautious, likely for a reason.

I wouldn't have gone off on him like that but you did good.

As an ex-cop from the late 70's garys_1k is right in that cops watch for driver just below the speed limit hoping not to draw attention to themselves. Once pulled over they want you to speak so to check for slurred speech and breath check. This cop though rude seems so-so just poor people skills. Challenging authority is good most of the time as long as you remain calm, cool, and collective. Using the lawyer bashing is bad idea (only a mother could love a lawyer "just a joke guys".) Try to keep all your challenges in the form of a question.

• Is riding my back bumper safe?
• How do I contact your supervisor?
• Do you have a badge number?

The bumper riding is done to intimidate criminals into making a mistake and/or starting a 10-80 (car chase). I have no problem with car chases that start spontaneously, but don't think provoking them is in the best interest of "John Q Public"

Originally Posted by Arminius

This is why you need a sticker on the car that explains your speed. Seriously.

I think this is a good idea for two reasons first is why this thread started and second is to promote EM driving to others!

BTW trikkonceptz I got a speeding ticket back in the mid 80's going through the tunnel, back when I lived in Oakland Park, FL. I guess the cop didn't like my ROSS Beach Cruiser Bicycle going faster than his Harley, The grade in the tunnel is steeper than it looks from in a car! And all I said to the cop is you've got to be kidding me...

[aerohead]

Originally Posted by trikkonceptz

After a lengthy discussion with one of my family attorneys, he dropped this knowledge on me.

He says that the way we drive, (Safe and under speed), does mimic that of drunk drivers, the differnece being that we do not swerve all over the place. He advised me to be a bit more tolerant of law enforcement because they operate under suspicion at all times. He did not condone the treatment I recieved, just asked that I be more patient when approached at night by police until this becomes more mainstream.

I agree with the advice just not the profiling .. oh well what will cops do when a larger percentage of the populations begins to slow down ..

I'm pretty big on the "walking a mile in their moccasins" before judgement club.Had I been either one of you,I would have behaved identically.I know some law enforcement folks,and they can get hammered from all sides.They're routinely expected to walk into harm's way.There's a lot of alcoholism,divorce,broken families,KIA,etc.. I'm not defending what the guy did,and am impressed with your presence of mind when in an altercation like that.If I were a screen-writer,I'd get it into the script of a major motion picture.Maybe cast Sean Penn for the part.I suppose" profiling" has become a permanent part of the American landscape.I like to think he'll remember your car and the context for your "behavior".

[equation112]

Originally Posted by dcb

Why were you guys in the way of an emergency vehicle to begin with?!?

we were NOT in his way... this happened in the middle of the night on I-95, which in the area that this occurred is FIVE to SIX lanes wide, and aside from him, there was no other moving traffic in the vicinity. the minivan and I were both in the same lane, and the officer had PLENTY of BOTH time and SPACE to go where he needed. he could have calmly rolled into the emergency lane right behind the other cruiser, but deliberately chose to cut the van off instead. since both the van and I were already in the far left lane, we simply stayed there, as cutting all the way back to the right would have definitely put us in his way... like I said he had 5 other lanes plus the left emergency lane to work with.

[dcb]

Originally Posted by equation112

since both the van and I were already in the far left lane

OMG, you saw him coming a mile away, with his lights on, and didn't move right. Who gave you a license?

[dcb]

1. florida has a move over law, meaning that you don't play chicken with the emergency vehicles stopped on the side of the road. You move to a lane away from the scene and failing that you reduce your speed to 20mph under the limit.

FHP - 'Move over' law gets serious

2. you are supposed to move to the right and yield the right of way to emergency vehicles (or any overtaking vehicle). Passing on the right is illegal and arguably dangerous, as is passing in the emergency lane. There is usually crud or completely stopped vehicles or pedestrians in the emergency lane.

http://www.flhsmv.gov/ddl/utc/APPENDIX_C.pdf

3. driving in the left lane when there's hardly any other cars?!? And 5 other lanes?!? The left lanes are for overtaking vehicles. Slower traffic to the right. You don't know the extent of the emergency, could be a heart attack, get the hell out of the way.

[equation112]

Originally Posted by dcb

OMG, you saw him coming a mile away, with his lights on, and didn't move right. Who gave you a license?

sorry, but when I learned to drive, I was taught that cutting across 5 lanes would get you pulled over, and I *have* been pulled over for moving over a mere 2 lanes while signaling and taking my time back when Davie had a 'policy' of profiling DWB. (forgive the unintentional sarcastic tone here - I can't see a way to write it without it coming off that way)

that said, I was unaware of the specific details of the move over law - most drivers down here tend to follow the 'slow down and get out of the way of the emergency vehicle via the shortest and quickest way possible' rule, regardless of the actual direction... ie if the emergency vehicle is on the left, move right, and if the emergency vehicle is on the right, move left. it's been my observation that generally emergency vehicles are thus always afforded the center until they actually make a move in a particular direction themselves - the surrounding vehicles adjust accordingly. note this is not a criticism or disagreement with the law as it stands... just an observation based on 21 years and somewhere around a million miles driven. it doesnt help much that the law is only 5 years old... most drivers like myself have been driving for far longer with long-standing habits and trained procedures - especially here, which is a melting pot of driving habits from all over the world.

in any case, consider me enlightened. my thanks

1. florida has a move over law, meaning that you don't play chicken with the emergency vehicles stopped on the side of the road. You move to a lane away from the scene and failing that you reduce your speed to 20mph under the limit.

who said I (or the van ahead of me) was playing chicken? the stopped cruiser was on our left, the approaching (at high speed) cruiser was on our right, smack in the middle of the highway, and he stayed there until the last possible moment, making no attempt whatsoever to indicate any intention of doing anything other than continuing in a straight line. the posted limit on that section of 95 is 65mph, and we had both slowed to 40 - in compliance with the move over law interestingly enough. if either one or both of us had merged right - into the path of the approaching cruiser BTW - we likely would have been seen as actively obstructing him, and pulled over for it, and there was no way for us to know where the approaching cruiser was going. if we had merged right all the way across the highway, and he [b]wasnt[/i] going to the other cruiser, but onto one of the off ramps that lead to I-595 or SR-84 right there, we would still have been in his way. IMHO we made the best choice of a very limited set of possibilities, which were:

1. he keeps going straight or goes to one of the off-ramps to the right, we slow down and give the stopped cruiser at least 1 lane of clearance to his right after the moving cruiser passes. no problem (this was my original plan anyway).

2. he slots in behind us, we move right. no problem.

3. we move right, he moves right. we end up in his way and possibly get an accident or pulled over for changing too many lanes at once

2. you are supposed to move to the right and yield the right of way to emergency vehicles (or any overtaking vehicle). Passing on the right is illegal and arguably dangerous, as is passing in the emergency lane. There is usually crud or completely stopped vehicles or pedestrians in the emergency lane.

look... if you *absolutely* cant go left, and you seemingly can't go right without getting in the way, where the hell are you supposed to go? if the approaching cruiser had slotted in behind us, it would have been apparent where he was going and I at least (cant speak for the van in front) would have moved over to the right to get out of the way - as per the rule. sometimes following the letter of the law is worse than breaking it.

3. driving in the left lane when there's hardly any other cars?!? And 5 other lanes?!? The left lanes are for overtaking vehicles. Slower traffic to the right. You don't know the extent of the emergency, could be a heart attack, get the hell out of the way.

there are only certain roadways here in florida where that rule applies, and those are usually marked, 2-lane highways - the turnpike for example used to operate under the 'cruise right, pass left' rule back in the '70's - it no longer does in most areas due to increased usage and the fact that that rule really can't be enforced on roadways with more than 2 lanes - and the 'pike now has 3 or more lanes in most areas of south florida - it makes no sense to. down here it is more along the lines of left=overtaking and high speed cruising (except during rush our when its HOVcity), middle=trucks and mid-speed cruising while right=on and off-ramp access (slower traffic). just because there isnt any other traffic doesnt mean you have to use the right lane anymore. as for the rest, like i said, the approaching cruiser could have gone *anywhere*, and moving out of the lane we were in would likely have put us right in his way. rock and a hard place... go figure.

[dentprone]

Trik, you rock. This was beautiful....enjoyed this immensely. You would think the cops would be going after the speeders. Here in North FL, there is really no police presence anymore at all. Honestly, one could average 60mph through the city with almost no risk of being ticketed. So, I spend my time on the road being tailgated and passed by impotent 'tards in SuperDuties and Z71's.

[craig5_12]

Great read, Trik you make me proud, I'm glad you stood up to that A-hole and didn't put up with his crap. (pun intended)
I've driven like an @$$ in the past and got some well deserved tickets. I've also driven like a normal sane driver and got pulled over for bogus reasons and had to deal with more A-holes.
I guess I joined this forum just in time. I was pulled over a week ago by a B!tch of a cop for not having a front license plate. (Is this probable cause?)
When showing her my brand new license (July) she asks for my current address, I told her that license is new and that is my current address. She says "You don't live in a PO Box, what is your address"? At this point I'm a little more angry and told her to get out a pen and paper and write it down so she could spell Wilseyville...
Anyhow, she runs a whole gammut of questions all seemingly pointed at me making myself a criminal and after finding nothing more writes me a fix-it ticket for the crack in my windshield and no front license plate. (I really want to know if that is probable cause for pulling someone over).
BTW I drive a lowered Honda so immediately I was a Ricer...she was in the opposite lane on a four-way and flipped a B!tch in rush hour traffic to catch back up to me!!!

I say it was a good time to join the forum because now I'm thinking of using my front license plate as an upper grill air dam...good idea?
Also, because I have to get a new windshield, I'm wondering if I can use a Plexiglass or Lexan windshield instead and incorporate a little extra length to cover up the gap by my wipers...Anyone done something like this?

[rjacob]

Originally Posted by craig5_12

I say it was a good time to join the forum because now I'm thinking of using my front license plate as an upper grill air dam...good idea?

Check out these license plate frames, especially Model EX-33:
Front & Rear License Plate Accessories :: Sigma Automotive
Pretty cool.

What I did was lower my plate, so the top holes in the plate are mounted to the lower mounting bolts. It works as a partial grill block. It is also angled back.


I have seen one plate mounting that flips up when the car is cruising at highway speed, but pops back down when the car is stopped. I can't imagine it would be be legal. But it would be interesting to see the cops face when they pull you over for not having a front plate, but then see you have a front plate...

[dentprone]

Originally Posted by craig5_12

Also, because I have to get a new windshield, I'm wondering if I can use a Plexiglass or Lexan windshield instead and incorporate a little extra length to cover up the gap by my wipers...Anyone done something like this?

Personally, I wouldn't recommend a plastic windshield....even Lexan gets scratched up fairly quickly. You would be working it constantly (polishing) to keep your visibility up. Just my .02, Welcome to the forums.

[KJSatz]

Oooh moving down the license plate is a pretty good idea! Have you noticed improvements?

[craig5_12]

Thanks for the ideas/comments guys..didn't mean to hijack the thread...on with the cop stories...

[trikkonceptz]

Well since this thread keeps on going let me add some more fuel to the fire and what happened today.

On my way to work I was at an intersection, (with the engine off), as the light went green I turned the engine on and engaged the car in drive, as I pulled off an officer from 2 lanes over turned on his lights and pulled me over.

He was nice and asked me if I was having car trouble. I replied no and explained that I shut off my vehicle @ red lights to save fuel. (Didn't tell him I was EOCing from a 1/2 mile away). He explained to me that what I did was illegal. I asked why. He said that it was illegal in FLorida to coast down a hill with the engine in neutral or out of gear. I explained that I turned the car off once it came to a complete stop and his interpretation was not applicable. With no credible answer to that he simply restated that it was still illegal. To which I responded, "Then why do Prius' get away with it?" They shut their engines off when not in motion too. He had no answer.

I offered this to him. I explained that I was the exception and not the norm, that what I am doing is related to my studies in order to develop a retrofitted hybrid kit for older vehicles and that what I was doing was collecting data, safely, in order to support a need for an engine off system for non-hybrid cars. I explained that I was working very hard to reverse a lot of embedded mis information on how we were taught to drive vehicles and alot of this new information would conflict with printed law. I also cited as an example a situation where I was going to remove my side view mirrors for cameras which offer better visibility without blind spots but seemed to be in direct violation with a printed statute. So I asked him what was easier, to uphold an older law based on a lack of technology or consider that as time moves on advancements in motor vehciles will move faster than our judiciary system.

After a lengthy conversation, he wished everyone he pulled over was as informed as I was about the why in what we do and told me to be safe and wished me luck.

I swear, some times I think I have Jedi mind powers ... LOL

[cfg83]

trikkonceptz -

Everybody Wins! You're still me Hero!!!!!!!!!!!!!

CarloSW2