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Old 06-05-2017, 05:24 AM   #1 (permalink)
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AMG Nitro - 100 mpg, 110 cc

Off topic...

I put my 100mpg toy back on the road today:



I think I've made her properly useable now.

I had put a notably larger front sprocket on her after the end of last season, as well as an intake adapter that lets me choose the position of the carb/intake. I never got to test them, mind you.

I had put a tiny volt meter next to the speedometer last season to diagnose a frequently undercharged battery. Being able to see what was going on under the surface was invaluable. I discovered the magneto was insufficient for the electrical load with the lights on, and with them all off, the voltage would rise well above what was healthy for the battery.

Today, I put on a larger voltage regulator/rectifier and a charge plug/port for the inaccessible battery. The regulator in the old rectifier/regulator was fried, and charging the battery involved tapping in to the electrical system, which was completely inconvenient. I also put in an LED compatible, adjustable flasher while I was in there.

The new regulator worked like a charm; voltage won't rise above 14.4v. I don't have to turn the headlight on when I'm cruising, or off when I'm waiting at a light. It's from a 200cc Honda-clone ATV engine, two or three times as large of a heatsink on it, and positioned to get direct airflow. Hopefully that means it's a done deal, otherwise I'll go with plan B of making a small circuit to automatically bleed the power off through the headlight.

With the regulator functioning, and the new flasher in, I can continue lightening the electrical load by converting over to LEDs. Idling at a light with the indicator, headlight and brake light all on, you can see the voltage slowly drop the longer you sit there. Besides, I love LEDs.

The taller gearing has made me lose the stupid level of acceleration (which was fun), but has made cruising at speed much quieter. The 110cc engine I swapped in (the old engine's rings were fried) would start screaming at about 50km/hr in top (4th) gear. It made cruising annoying, and I could not get her over 60km/hr, and only that by crouching low over the handlebars. She now maxes out at 70km/hr on level ground sitting upright, 75 if I crouch down. 60 is an easy/quiet cruise, to the point that I kept finding myself speeding in 50 zones. The taller gearing should help with gas mileage.

Oh, this was all sparked by my picking up a new helmet this morning. I finally found a good deal on a "used" helmet big enough to fit me; I've been looking for months. I wanted a full face helmet, as my old-school scooter style helmet doesn't really suit the bike, and I can't stand the wind blowing around my eyes. Turned out to actually be unused. Guy stopped riding before he started using it.




Chinese made, but DOT approved, and the whole front flipping up is very convenient. I'm happy with it.

Alrighty. Thanks for tuning in.

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Old 06-05-2017, 12:40 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Neat ride!!

Question: do you have a dedicated thread for it? If not, mind if I split it?
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Old 06-09-2017, 02:23 AM   #3 (permalink)
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These guys are more commonly known as a "Sachs Madass", which came in 50cc and 125cc flavors. The "AMG Nitro" is a Canadian variant of the 50cc version, imported by "Alliance Moteur Groupe" of Quebec. The Sachs Madass was still available here, mind you.

I first saw a Madass parked outside of the local scooter shop, which was just a few blocks away from where I lived at the time. I loved the looks of it, young as I was at the time. Couldn't afford one...young as I was at the time. Rather like the Fiero, I put it on the back-burner and never forgot about it, unlike some other things.

When I got my Honda C70, I noticed these guys used the same basic (clone) engine. It wasn't a Madass, but I enjoyed restoring it and riding it for a year or two:



This Nitro popped up when I was doing my usual daily searches through local online classifieds, for $500. The owner couldn't get it started after having put it away for the winter, so he was selling it cheap. They typically go for three times that - or more - in running condition. I tried it on for size - it looks so small in photos, and I'm tall - and it fit, so I took it home with me.

It needed a new battery, and with extremely limited space for one, I invested in the correct one. Even with a working battery, it was a pain in the butt to get started the first time. But I got her going. Made sure she was road worthy and took her for a ride.

She was pretty gutless on take off, even with the 72cc "big bore" kit that was installed on it. These 2-speed automatics aren't stellar. First gear isn't low enough, second gear isn't high enough. She couldn't really take off on hills with two hundred pounds of me perched atop her, and she was absolutely screaming when cruising at posted speed limits in town.

I never got her starting reliably...she had idle issues...she died once too often and wouldn't start up again until she had sat for a while, as if she was flooded. I finally came to the conclusion that the piston rings were fried (presumably from making it scream all the time), and no amount of adjusting the carb and whatnot was going to get her to ever idle or start reliably.

So...I stole the engine out of my rebuilt C70. She wasn't half as pretty any more, and I had little interest in riding her, so it wasn't a hard decision. This was a 110cc, 4-speed semi-automatic I picked up on ebay. It was getting ~100mpg on the C70. I'm assuming/hoping it will do the same on the Nitro.

I repainted the engine with charcoal grey metallic wheel paint while it was out, as continuing the black(dark, anyway) blue paint theme of the frame and wheels would look better than a bright aluminum engine. I liked the theme on my Miata, after all.

The electronics(ignition)/charging systems were a bit different. The 110cc uses a crude center-tapped magneto, whereas the Sachs engine (even though it was a Nitro, Sachs was stamped on the engine case) had a proper 3-phase generator. The 110c was designed to run without a battery, if necessary, and the CDI did not depend on the battery to provide power. The Sachs did.

Comparing the spark between the two while cranking the engine over, the battery dependent CDI gave a far superior spark, no matter how fast or slow the engine turned over. The magneto-dependant one would either not spark or spark weakly except at the fastest/hardest of kick-starts. So I re-wired the 110cc to use the battery-powered CDI, for dependable starts.

The Sachs motor also breathed better, as attested to being able to get the silly little 72cc engine up to 65km/hr, in spite of being a 2-speed. I used the carb from it, which was larger than the one that came with the 110cc.

The combination of the battery CDI and the bigger carb was wholly better than the originals for the 110cc. I blipped the starter and she fired right up. No more extended cranking as before with the 110 setup, and no more lack of compression making it near impossible to start from the Sachs motor.

I rode her around the last bit of last season like that, fiddling around with things here and there. She was my weekend toy to bomb around on and enjoy the freedom that comes with 2 wheels.

Fiddled around here and there? I never stopped fiddling around. The stump-pulling torque was great fun on take-off, but the ~55km/hr top speed wasn't. My 4-speed engine is both low-geared, and not rev-happy, like the 72cc was. Meant for a smaller engine, the rear sprocket is huge...and replacements are stupidly expensive, since almost no one makes them. Hence why I ordered as large of a front sprocket as I could fit, and put it on after the weather turned for the season last year...
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Old 06-09-2017, 03:28 AM   #4 (permalink)
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As when I brought it home:



And after a bit of cleaning:



Sachs motor in it with chain guard/side case off. Front fender off, as front tire was replaced with a slightly larger one that rubbed. Missing (And still is) one of the two headlights.

Had a bit over 3000kms on it:



Not very many K's on the engine, and it was already fried...well, it is a chinese knockoff of the Honda horizontal engines. 3k is more than I would have really expected.

This was the gas that was in it, probably what took starting from very difficult to impossible:



Oh, yes, the starter solenoid was toast. I had a spare, thankfully. The good thing about these honda-clones...the parts are mostly interchangeable.



110cc engine, freshly pulled:



Painting:



Note the position of the starter...it means I can't have the carb facing backwards like it was on the Sachs motor. (there are two positions for them, if you're buying one...under or over).

Old motor out:



Puzzling out the different wiring:



(and changing the color of one wire with heat shrink tube, to match every other wiring schematic out there)

Motor in:



...with the goose-neck intake, facing forwards.

Notice the wires dangling down in front of the rear tire, below the swing-arm? That little space has to house the battery, the CDI, the flasher, the starter relay and the rectifier/regulator. The battery is about the size of my fist.

It's real fun screwing the wires to the terminals in that cramped space. And forcing the plastic covers through too small of a space to get them on...hence why I made sure to do everything under there that needed doing all at once last week; I don't want to have to go in there again any time soon.

Anyway, that finally got her on the road, back to the pic found in my first post:



And a subsequent shot:

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Old 06-14-2017, 02:14 PM   #5 (permalink)
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cool, you also have those license-made Honda Z50/Gorilla-derived motors
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Old 06-14-2017, 02:43 PM   #6 (permalink)
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This makes me wish I still had my Puch.
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Old 06-14-2017, 09:26 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Apparently the chinese are making a direct knock-off of the Honda Cub these days, as this guy popped up for sale locally:



It's called a "SYM Symba".
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Old 06-14-2017, 09:42 PM   #8 (permalink)
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I just picked up a 1986 NQ50 Honda to go with my 1988 SB50P so both twins can have a 30 mph scooter once they fix them up. These don't need a MC license if they have their driver's license here in NYS. Tecumseh made the 110cc 2 stroke engine on my snow blower. I may switch it with the electric motor on the chipper shredder.
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Old 06-15-2017, 11:20 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Victoria, BC
Posts: 720

Topoff (RIP) - '92 Geo Metro LSi
90 day: 48.54 mpg (US)

'91 Miata - '91 Mazda Miata
90 day: 27.11 mpg (US)

'86 Fiero GT - '86 Pontiac Fiero GT

Purple Penny Pincher - '95 Pontiac Firefly Base
90 day: 43.68 mpg (US)

Jett-Black - '01 Volkswagen Jetta
90 day: 39.32 mpg (US)

Firefly EV - '98 Pontiac Firefly EV
90 day: 107.65 mpg (US)
Thanks: 35
Thanked 216 Times in 157 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grant-53 View Post
I just picked up a 1986 NQ50 Honda to go with my 1988 SB50P so both twins can have a 30 mph scooter once they fix them up. These don't need a MC license if they have their driver's license here in NYS.
Nice! The law is the same here.

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