Another member from across the pond

[Unheard]

Hey people hows it going?

Another member from England here, two members in as many days, must be a record for this forum.

I found this site a few months back when googleing vortex generators
i think it chucked up a topic somewhere on here. I am the type of person that likes to improve on any thing i can see flaws with so i will be right at home here.

My first car back in 2001 was 1989 mini 998cc. To make the most of the small engine i decided to fit a full fiberglass front end and remove the metal bumpers, i also removed the back seats and spare wheel then replaced the mechanical fan for an electric item.

the difference in weight was very noticeable the car felt much faster and in normal driving returned a much better MPG, from then on i could see the benafit of making small modifications.

In 2004 i got my current car. a VW Lupo 1.4 Sport. some of you may know of the lupo. The lupo 1.2 TDI 3L edition one an award for the worlds most fuel efficient production car. Unfortunately the same cant be said for my sport. Iit has the worst consumption out of the whole range even the more powerful 1.6 gives a better return. The only explanation is the cams. There is almost no power below 3000rpm then all the 100 horses start to come alive. unmodified i was getting a constant return of about 30 uk mpg. That is very poor for such a small car. Just 2 weeks ago I took the back seats out and my sub all weighing in at 6 stone thats 84 pounds. So far I have not been able to do a good run to calculate the difference.

I had to make a few 70-80 mph trips on the fastest flowing motorway i know it can have an flow speed in both lanes of about 80mph an its very hard to stick to the 60mph sweetspot for mpg. Despite the fast driveing last return was 33mpg, better than i had been getting. Now i am driving slower again things look good. On the weekend i blanked the grill and taped up as many seems as i could, The window surround had quite a lip around it so that is much smoother now. I also taped over the bumper joins front and back and the rear light cluster where it joins to the body. just from that i can notice less wind noise from around the window and water tends to flow off the screen rather than just jump about. i have more mos planned and lots of ideas. once i can get the material i am going to make a full belly pan and i want to test out vortex generators as the lupo is quite flat ended.

My dad has a KIA carens mkII 2.0 diesel for english standards its got very bad MPG for a diesel at about 37 sometimes just touching 40 if he is luckey. The new Carens MKIII is much better on fuel at 45mpg so he is thinking of trading it in to get the newer model he drives it as a taxy the engine is super reliable in them and my dad has just hit 140,000 in 2 year of having the car without a single problem. The Carens is marked in the US as the KIA Rondo but the engines are totally different the top spec here is a 2.0L diesel where as you get 2.4L I4 and 2.7L V6 the 2.0 diesel has a much higher torque than the 2.7L v6 but you dont get to enjoy it. Unfortunately the pleasure of a modern Diesel has not yet been discovered in north america but they are the perfect answer to the US addiction to muscle cars. The US has a history of large capacity low revving high torque V8s, you can get the same muscle form a diesel in a smaller engine with much better fuel consumption. win win situation and they are so nice to drive now

Merc have already got there first VW second then the market in 2009 will be stormed with 50 state compliant diesels so something for you all to look forward to!

As the SUV market has totally crashed i would expect sales of European spec cars to boom and hopefull soon after we will get some good US exports into the European market. My mum has a Daewoo matiz tiny little car with a 800cc engine more of a shopping cart than a car but its a fantastic town car getting 45mpg Daewoo no longer exist as they were taken over by GM and named Chevrolet. I am not really sure on there choice of name given the history of the brand but they seem to be bringing out some quite nice cars. They have still kept the matiz as the bottom end car but
the rest of the range is new. I have always had an eye on my mums car as a good starting point for an EV conversion given that the car is very light. I think i better stick to improving my car at the moment though

I have to say that in the UK people love to moan about fuel price but they are not really bothered with actually doing anything about it other than moaning to the government, i don't agree with the amount we are taxed but my theory has always been to try and use less fuel in the first place. i am heavily into researching HHO at the moment. For my engine it could give me exactly what i am after. more torque lower down the rev range meaning that i could drive in a higher gear as slower speeds without problems.

I am really impressed with some of the ideas that are on here namely driving with a vacuum gage seems a fantastically logical idea i had never though of, its something I will be looking into. I am keen to learn more about hypermileing. All though its slightly harder to do some of the things on uk roads but generally i may be able to modify my driving.

My main focus for my car at the moment is finding some one that will make me a stainless exhaust manifold around the south east of England. Its an impossible task no one is interested. I have a pre-cat on the stock manifold that does nothing more than restrict the engine so i want to get rid of it as soon as i can to free up the revs

I am sure i will be asking quite a few questions and putting some of my ideas out there to get your thoughts on them.

[SVOboy]

Can I get some shots of the lupo? I've always loved the car!

Welcome to ecomodder.

[Red]

Welcome to EM. Looks like you've been doing well on the mods over the years

[Johnny Mullet]

Glad you could join us and share!

[Unheard]

taken with a camera phone so excuse the quality. i will upload some more pictures when i have charged my phone

[Markmysite]

Hello there ... welcome aboard!

[cfg83]

Unheard -

Welcome to EM! We're jealous of your Lupo in the USA.

Thanks for posting the pictures. Can you tell me what the little "rivets" are that surround the rear hatch? Are they vortex generators? Mount points for vortex generators? If they are rivets, maybe they could be mount points for a Kamm-back.

CarloSW2

[Unheard]

AHH you spotted them lol

i forgot to say about that they are button magnets they dont need any mounting thwy stick on so hard its quite a job getting them off, i was looking into vortex generators and very interested in testing them out. i had ordered some little magnets for a windbelt generator project. They came through the post and i had put the stack of them in my pocket. i totally forgot about them until i was working on the engine and my pocket stuck to the wing with a clunk. The idea then hit me that i could test them out along the rear edge as vortex generator bumps

I will have to take them off again to verify any gain or loss but from reading up on the concept i think they should have the desired effect. i certainly don't feel any more drag and its hard to tell if there is a reduction because that could all be in my mind as so often when you want something to work but so far my mpg is looking good i am on 87 miles just half way down from the first bar i cant remember that ever happening before
but that may be to many combined factors such as the grill block and driving stile. at the same time as putting the magnets on the rear edge is straped some around the fuel
line. i have no idea if magnets have any effect on fuel but as so many fuel magnets are sold i didn't really have anything to loose by it.

Circular Disc Magnets

[cfg83]

Unheard -

You could use them as bases for your own home-made vortex generators. I can tell you they won't come off (unless someone swipes 'em). I did this for some Airtab vortex generators :

Originally Posted by cfg83

NeilBlanchard -

I have Airtabs. I was worried that I wouldn't like the aesthetics either, so I made them reversible. I used business card magnets :



Then I put a strategic Neodymium magnet in the interior volume :



I haven't lost one since I installed them in March. I only take them off if I am going to wash the car. If I do lose any/all of them, I will probably get more and make them permanent because now I "like" the look.

CarloSW2

CarloSW2

[Unheard]

how well have they worked?

[cfg83]

Unheard -

Originally Posted by Unheard

how well have they worked?

I won't lie, I don't know, . I need to do a tuft test on my rear window to see the effect on turbulence. Also, I have yet to find a good safe place in LA to do a repeatable coast down test.

CarloSW2

[Unheard]

Thats the problem with certain mods its hard to tell if they are actually worth it.
I read about dimples being very beneficial and also flat zigzags, as both are not
that big there is not too much worry of them causing much drag rather than
helping with it.

MORE SPEEDWITH LESS

I am going to neck a tank drive at a set speed down a road then neck it again
to work out the MPG that will be my baseline

Any mods can then be tested out by repeating the same test, All though i cant account for weather it will give a real world indication if things are working for the better.

I love the theory of how things work but sometimes it comes down to a simple test to see either way

looking at fish and birds is always a good indicator of good design concepts when it comes to aerodynamics evaluation has been playing around much longer than man has


not directly related to cars but gets the brain stimulated

Technology Review: Whale-Inspired Wind Turbines

I also came across something called the ram implosion wing the concept is fascinating
but i am not sure what to make of it. it could be just a load of BS i am not sure if anyone has posted on here about it before it looks rather interesting whatever

Ram Implosion Wing Developments

[cfg83]

Unheard -

Yeah, the sophisticated aero-mods frustrate me because they are much harder to prove. Here is another plane-inspired mod that would be cool for someone to test :

SinhaTech - Sinha Flexible Composite Surface Deturbulator

Dr. Sumon K. Sinha has developed a Flexible Composite Surface Deturbulator (FCSD) tape, that effectively reduces drag from air flow over surfaces. Although development is proceeding, Dr. Sinha's deturbulator has already produced 20% better performance in aircraft test flights.

SinhaTech - Sinha Flexible Composite Surface Deturbulator

...
Semi-Tractor-Trailer Rigs

A grant from the National Science Foundation has been awarded to investigate deturbulation of semitrailer rigs. Testing has been performed on a deturbulated 2004 Freightliner Columbia double-sleeper tractor pulling a Wabash 53-ft box semi-trailer. The mileage data was obtained independently by the trucking company during normal roundtrip operation with cargo between Baton Rouge, LA and Pensacola, FL. The following graph from driver records shows 4% better mileage for overall driving, including idling periods, and 5% improvement on the highway. The truck cpu gave 5.95 mpg normally versus 6.26 mpg when deturbulated for overall trip mileage. Since then, we have extended the treatment and preliminary data indicate 6.6 mpg or 10% better overall mileage. These test runs were performed in typically humid conditions indicating that the version 2 deturbulator is not adversely affected by humidity.

I don't think you can just "make it yourself" because the design tolerances are so small. Also, I feel like you need to have a PhD to know "where to put them".

This is also interesting to me because it is counter-intuitive. You normally *want* your surface to be rigid in relation to laminar flow (right?!?!?!?!). This gizmo-tape is designed to vibrate as you move (nano-turbulence?!?!?!).

CarloSW2