Anyone tried HHO on a diesel?

[roflwaffle]

Originally Posted by nubbzcummins

It would work like that if you use equal parts of both but this is probly not the case.

Are you sure about that? Lets construct a similar situation, but w/ the same fuel to simplify energy content issues. Lets say my car gets 25mpg. I get a gallon of fuel from Shell, Arco, Exxon, and Ned's family gas station. Then I drive 100 miles. Technically, since I used a little bit of each station's gas, I went 100 miles on Shell, 100 on Arco, etc... And since, like ya mentioned, I was using equal parts, I got 100mpg on Arco, and on Shell, etc...

Originally Posted by nubbzcummins

Example if you use equal parts the mpg avg would be 40mpg but if you use 75% at 20mpg and 25% at 60mpg the avg would drop to 30mpg due to the amount used being weighted more towards the one that yields lower mileage. But hey, 60mpg is not bad in a big truck!

We're using diesel at 60mpg, and a gallon of propane, be it a GGE or GDE of propane, or a gallon in terms of volume, at 20mpg. To go 20 miles, we used 1/3rd of a gallon of diesel, and one gallon of propane. If it's a gallon of gasoline or diesel equivalent propane, then we used ~37-42kWh of propane, plus another 14kWh of diesel, to go 20 miles, which works out to ~51-56kWh for 20 miles that is the equivalent of ~1.21-1.33 gallons of diesel, so over 20 miles we're looking at ~15.1-16.5mpg. If it's a straight up gallon of LPG, then it's ~28kWh of propane, plus 14kWh of diesel, for ~42kWh/1 gallon of diesel, and that's ~20mpg. Either way, it ain't 40mpg or 30mpg. ~15-20mpg is the norm for a conservatively driven pickup. Not to say that diesel pilot ignition of propane or natural gas isn't more efficient, just that it's not 30-40mpg more efficient.

Odds are the person who started that wanted to sell propane injection.

[Christ]

Please do the math now for when you shoot propane AND nitrous into a diesel.

I've seen insane HP adder figures, but I'd like to see the math regarding any efficiency gains.

[99metro]

I went from 14.6 mpg to 22.3 mpg on my 7.3 diesel (52% increase in fuel mileage).

All I did was changed the way I drive. I can do a 11% change just by adjusting my right foot. I'm not an HHO doubter, but unless this system can honestly double fuel mpg without causing engine damage and costing $1000 or more, I'm happy doing what I am doing.

[nubbzcummins]

"Are you sure about that? Lets construct a similar situation, but w/ the same fuel to simplify energy content issues. Lets say my car gets 25mpg. I get a gallon of fuel from Shell, Arco, Exxon, and Ned's family gas station. Then I drive 100 miles. Technically, since I used a little bit of each station's gas, I went 100 miles on Shell, 100 on Arco, etc... And since, like ya mentioned, I was using equal parts, I got 100mpg on Arco, and on Shell, etc..."

Your math is off here.....If you have equal parts of each then they are all weighted the same when getting an average. 100 miles driven on 4 gallons is 25mpg any way you slice it. Each gallon is weighted the same at 1/4 the total or 25%. Do not know where you got 100mpg. That would be weighting each gallon at 100%. Maybe you were on how I came up with my figures.

We're using diesel at 60mpg, and a gallon of propane, be it a GGE or GDE of propane, or a gallon in terms of volume, at 20mpg. To go 20 miles, we used 1/3rd of a gallon of diesel, and one gallon of propane. If it's a gallon of gasoline or diesel equivalent propane, then we used ~37-42kWh of propane, plus another 14kWh of diesel, to go 20 miles, which works out to ~51-56kWh for 20 miles that is the equivalent of ~1.21-1.33 gallons of diesel, so over 20 miles we're looking at ~15.1-16.5mpg. If it's a straight up gallon of LPG, then it's ~28kWh of propane, plus 14kWh of diesel, for ~42kWh/1 gallon of diesel, and that's ~20mpg. Either way, it ain't 40mpg or 30mpg. ~15-20mpg is the norm for a conservatively driven pickup. Not to say that diesel pilot ignition of propane or natural gas isn't more efficient, just that it's not 30-40mpg more efficient.

I think I may be a little here. Could you explain this more?

[nubbzcummins]

I was using inaccurate figures for the earlier calculation. Ok here are some different figures that should be closer. At 60mpg diesel and 20mpg propane and a 3:1 ratio propane:diesel here is the math. 3 x 20 = 60 for 3 gallons of propane. 1 x 60 = 60 for 1 gallon of diesel. 60 + 60 = 120 miles. 120 miles / 4 gallons total diesel plus propane combined = 30mpg. So this means this will give you a max of 30mpg assuming a 3:1 ratio and the minimum will be what ever the truck normally gets on diesel. Assuming 2:1 ratio the best would be 33mpg. Does this sound more reasonable? Not clear on what ratio gives 60mpg diesel and 20mpg propane so 30-33mpg max?

[roflwaffle]

Originally Posted by nubbzcummins

I was using inaccurate figures for the earlier calculation. Ok here are some different figures that should be closer. At 60mpg diesel and 20mpg propane and a 3:1 ratio propane:diesel here is the math. 3 x 20 = 60 for 3 gallons of propane. 1 x 60 = 60 for 1 gallon of diesel. 60 + 60 = 120 miles.

This last part is your problem. The truck isn't using 3 gallons of propane to go 60 miles, then 1 gallon of diesel to go another 60 miles, it's using 3 gallons of propane and 1 gallon of diesel to go 60 miles. 60 miles / 4 gallons of diesel and propane = 15mpg. Or 20 mpg diesel equivalent since propane has less energy per gallon than diesel.

[Frank Lee]

Palmear should read this and learn.

[nubbzcummins]

How in the heck would this save you money in fuel? I mean if you inject 3:1 you would need about 120 gallons of propane in todays diesel trucks. How much does that weigh plus the tank and hardware? LOL! Plus the expense of everything on top of that ect..........

[roflwaffle]

I dunno. Realistically they'll drain the propane tanks pretty quick and end up using more diesel. It seems like something someone interested in selling propane injection kits would push, preying on the arithmetic aptitude of big diesel pickup truck drivers.

[Big Dave]

Propane makes perfect sense if you can get propane for 60% of the price of No.2. Otherwise it is a waste of money.

Propane/nitrous will give you a tremendous short term torque boost. Don't advance your injection timing when using propane or you will grenade the engine.

HHO works only if somebody repealed the Second Law of Thermodynamics.