Go Back   EcoModder Forum > EcoModding > General Efficiency Discussion
Register Now
 Register Now

Now available from EcoModder: ScanGauge II fuel economy gauge.  Click for details.  

Reply  Post New Thread
 
Submit Tools LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 03-21-2012, 04:33 AM   #1 (permalink)
EcoModding Apprentice
 
meelis11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Estonia
Posts: 190

Green frog - '97 Audi A4 Avant 1.9TDI 81kW
Diesel
90 day: 43.1 mpg (US)
Thanks: 17
Thanked 34 Times in 25 Posts
Autospeed article "Diesel LPG - an Amazing Breakthrough"

Hi,
I just read this article about LPG as diesel additive fuel.
Diesel LPG - an Amazing Breakthrough

Anyone wants to experiment with DIY solution?
If it would be cheaper, then it looks good.

Meelis

  Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2012, 09:52 AM   #2 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
mechman600's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Surrey, BC
Posts: 1,188

The Matrix - '07 Toyota Matrix XR Auto
90 day: 27.52 mpg (US)

Wee - '06 Suzuki DL650 VStrom
90 day: 50.35 mpg (US)

Si - '98 Honda Civic Si
90 day: 38.19 mpg (US)
Thanks: 178
Thanked 248 Times in 152 Posts
technocarb.com

I saw a demo on this product in a training course I was in. I know a couple of people who have used similar systems and they work well. Fanning LPG into diesel engines is an age-old trick. Farmers used to make homemade propane injections for their tractors to help pull them through tough spots in the field.
  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to mechman600 For This Useful Post:
meelis11 (03-22-2012)
Old 03-21-2012, 10:15 AM   #3 (permalink)
V8 guy
 
oil pan 4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: NewMexico
Posts: 2,463

Sub - '84 Chevy Diesel Suburban C10
SUV
90 day: 19.5 mpg (US)

camaro - '85 Chevy Camaro Z28

Riot - '03 Kia Rio POS
Team Hyundai
90 day: 30.21 mpg (US)

Bug - '01 VW Beetle GLSturbo
90 day: 26.43 mpg (US)
Thanks: 38
Thanked 331 Times in 253 Posts
Been there done that.
LPG + Diesel is nothing new.

I don't recomend home made LPG. I gave up on it a long time ago.
If you can get the LPG at little to no cost then go for it.

I think water injection or water/methanol injection is the way to go.

Water injection - EcoModder
__________________
1984 chevy suburban, custom made 6.5L diesel turbocharged with a Garrett T76 and Holset HE351VE, 22:1 compression 13psi of intercooled boost.
1985 chevy camaro mostly stock.
  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to oil pan 4 For This Useful Post:
meelis11 (03-22-2012)
Old 03-21-2012, 10:24 AM   #4 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Corpus Christi, Texas
Posts: 1,407

2004 CTD - '04 DODGE RAM 2500 SLT
Team Cummins
90 day: 19.36 mpg (US)
Thanks: 546
Thanked 267 Times in 213 Posts
Wow, talk about a press release posing as journalism. (Longer, thicker, and greater endurance).

There are already some discussions hereabouts on LPG conversions, not to mention extensive discussions on vehicle specific boards. So, outside of what appears to be sophisticated software/electronics/mapping (worth knowing about) this conversion has a lot to do with taking advantage of a substantial price rebate (gee, caveat emptor, wonder who lobbied that into existence?), and, short of knowing the price differential between LPG and diesel in AU (the key factor), not to mention availability nationwide, one is left with a few points to consider:

- In N.A. diesel engined personal vehicles are overlarge, not at all lacking in power.

- The network of roads existing is such that, despite rough terrain, there is not an analogy to "the Outback" where an entire trip may take place on unpaved surfaces outside of the first and last miles.

- The energy content of diesel versus the energy content of LPG is about a one-third advantage to diesel. But prices here are that LPG is three-quarters the cost of diesel.

Thus, as "we" need neither a performance boost, nor are in great need of extending the range of diesel fuel carried aboard -- less do we have a tax advantage for making such a change -- this "article" as it applies to N.A. is worthy for the potential electronic mapping data (which for pickups can be understood by pursuing that around EFI LIVE) and issues of reliability (if only we had similar drivetrains to compare) by noting suppliers names. That's about it.

.
__________________
2004.0 DODGE Ram QC/LB 2500 2WD/NV-5600 305/555 ISB. 7,940-lb. Stock. 192,000 miles/4,900-hrs @ 39-mph average. 35' 9k GVWR TT. 14.6-cpm solo & 25-cpm towing; 21-mpg average past 44k-miles

Fuel Log
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2012, 11:58 AM   #5 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
euromodder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Failed State Belgium
Posts: 4,344

GasDwarf - '13 Volkswagen up! EcoFuel CNG
Thanks: 141
Thanked 507 Times in 400 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by meelis11 View Post
Hi,
Anyone wants to experiment with DIY solution?
You can't DIY it in Europe as all LPG installations need to be installed by certified installers - just like on a petrol car.

I'd be surprised if the US allow DIY LPG systems.
Over there, I wouldn't like to face the liability by tinkering with LPG.


For personal vehicles, the ecological advantage is still there, but economically it's cost-prohibitive as only about 30% of the diesel is replaced by LPG. It's even less economical on a vehicle that's already some years old.
I informed about it some ime ago

It works out well for high fuel consumption vehicles though - busses, trucks - in an environment where LPG is a lot cheaper than diesel and readily available.


For anyone doing the investment, mixing diesel and CNG or even LNG is more attractive as you can substitute about 70% of the diesel with CNG/LNG.
And it's most worthwhile when doing it right away when getting a new vehicle.
__________________
GasDwarf's fuel consumption :
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2012, 01:50 PM   #6 (permalink)
V8 guy
 
oil pan 4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: NewMexico
Posts: 2,463

Sub - '84 Chevy Diesel Suburban C10
SUV
90 day: 19.5 mpg (US)

camaro - '85 Chevy Camaro Z28

Riot - '03 Kia Rio POS
Team Hyundai
90 day: 30.21 mpg (US)

Bug - '01 VW Beetle GLSturbo
90 day: 26.43 mpg (US)
Thanks: 38
Thanked 331 Times in 253 Posts
Propane is expensive and some what hazardous.
Water is cheap and nearly harmless.

In europe and the EU would the government have a strangle hold on a water injection systems like they do with LPG based conversions or modifications?
__________________
1984 chevy suburban, custom made 6.5L diesel turbocharged with a Garrett T76 and Holset HE351VE, 22:1 compression 13psi of intercooled boost.
1985 chevy camaro mostly stock.
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2012, 10:08 PM   #7 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Victoria , Australia.
Posts: 499
Thanks: 20
Thanked 44 Times in 31 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by euromodder View Post
You can't DIY it in Europe as all LPG installations need to be installed by certified installers - just like on a petrol car.

I'd be surprised if the US allow DIY LPG systems.
Over there, I wouldn't like to face the liability by tinkering with LPG.
Essentially the same regs apply here.

DIY installation IS legal BUT the system must still meet legal requirements and the owner of the vehicle must provide evidence of that.

So realistically it means a certified installer inspecting and issuing an approval certificate for your DIY work. Good luck with that one!

By the way no certificate or approval number means no registration for driving on public roads and no insurance either.

As a further aside having the work done and certified did not alter my insurance premium. I handed the certificate to my insurance company they amended the computer records and it was done.
Took about three minutes.

Peter.
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2012, 11:19 PM   #8 (permalink)
V8 guy
 
oil pan 4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: NewMexico
Posts: 2,463

Sub - '84 Chevy Diesel Suburban C10
SUV
90 day: 19.5 mpg (US)

camaro - '85 Chevy Camaro Z28

Riot - '03 Kia Rio POS
Team Hyundai
90 day: 30.21 mpg (US)

Bug - '01 VW Beetle GLSturbo
90 day: 26.43 mpg (US)
Thanks: 38
Thanked 331 Times in 253 Posts
My propane install was DIY.
__________________
1984 chevy suburban, custom made 6.5L diesel turbocharged with a Garrett T76 and Holset HE351VE, 22:1 compression 13psi of intercooled boost.
1985 chevy camaro mostly stock.
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2012, 04:57 AM   #9 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Australia
Posts: 344

The Truck - '02 Nissan GU Patrol ST
Thanks: 5
Thanked 48 Times in 33 Posts
I looked into this a few years back, and every time I asked the question of economy and reliability, the installers sterted "speaking in tongues", and deduced from this it was, as said above one of those energy rebate schemes, didn't make it any better for the engine or the drivers pocket, just a loop hole for the installers to get some additional cash turnover.

  Reply With Quote
Reply  Post New Thread

Tags
additives, diesel, lpg

Thread Tools





Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.5.2
All content copyright EcoModder.com