Bob Lutz calls global warming crock of [bad word]

[trebuchet03]

Originally Posted by bennelson

I would also say that hybrid cars don't make a lot of economic sense for the average person.

They are expensive! Most of them are new, hard to find a used one anywhere at a decent price.

By the same logic, new cars don't make economic sense for the average anyone Because how much fuel do you need to buy to recover the depreciation? The answer is naught. You're still buying fuel, you're still putting dollars into it.

The Prius takes a long long time to recover it's cost in terms of fuel savings. Longer than reasonable (depending on the car - to recover about $7500, it takes 150-130K miles of Prius driving). I forget what car we were comparing, but I wrote up a whole spreadsheet for my mom that wanted to know.

It didn't take depreciation into consideration, but methinks that will make the "savings" come unto the realm of reasonable. But if one plans to drive it into the ground anyway - then it is 100% reasonable, it will pay for itself over it's life


But that said, do people really buy cars for their economic savings? (keep in mind that SUV's STILL make up about half of the new car market share and almost all cost more than a Prius).

Despite their inability to pay for themselves, they have an increase in sales despite their sector having a decrease. Sure, there's a market out there that won't buy unless it pays for itself - but thus far, that seems not to be a major factor for a car that makes up a tiny tiny tiny percentage of all car sales (there's still plenty of people that will buy).

[SVOboy]

More on the story out on ABG today: http://www.autobloggreen.com/2008/02...ing-is-a-tota/

[Silveredwings]

You said 'moron.'

[SVOboy]

Because we need more ron paul, obviously (PS: i h8 ron paul)

[Silveredwings]

Originally Posted by SVOboy

More on the story out on ABG today: http://www.autobloggreen.com/2008/02...ing-is-a-tota/

My fav.:

So-called “global warming” is just a secret ploy by wacko tree-huggers to make America energy independent, clean our air and water, improve the fuel efficiency of our vehicles, kick-start 21st-century industries, and make our cities safer and more livable. Don’t let them get away with it! – Chip Giller
Founder of Grist.org

[trebuchet03]

So-called “global warming” is just a secret ploy by wacko tree-huggers to make America energy independent, clean our air and water, improve the fuel efficiency of our vehicles, kick-start 21st-century industries, and make our cities safer and more livable. Don’t let them get away with it! – Chip Giller
Founder of Grist.org

Shhh... No one tell them GW was originally proposed by a mathematician about 200 years ago... It has nothing to do with weather, it's a heat transfer radiation equation

[H4MM3R]

GM has put a lot of R&D dollars into there new 2mode hybrid system.

[LostCause]

This might be slightly off topic, but I've always wondered what if global warming is a good thing. It really doesn't look that way, but for a mental exercise, lets say it is. More cropland opens up, rainforests extend their range and increase biodiversity despite loss of cold weather animals, the world is more productive and the quality of living rises for all...would it still be so bad?

I suppose the question isn't whether global warming is a crock of ****, but whether the arguments against it are. I for one would be oppossed simply due to the moral aspect of man changing something greater than himself. Apart from the whole oil consumption issue, would SUV's still be villanized if they helped the world? Probably, but then it gets down into a deeper issue. One I feel that is more important. Even if global warming is bogus, the change and attitude it inspires certainly is not. Bob Lutz, you could be right...but you're still a greedy SOB in my book.

- LostCause

[zjrog]

Actually, economics played heavily in my Neon purchase back in 03. My old minivan was barely getting 21MPG and my truck wasn't getting but 18 or so. I was dropping $20 a day for my 140 mile roundtrip commute. After looking for a car I could fit in, and like, the Neon was an answer I could agree with. All told, initially, after factoring in my monthly payment, and insurance, and the gas used daily, I was still $40-50 ahead at the end of the first months. 4 months and 15,500 miles later, I was laid off. Luckily, I found new work much closer to home with a pay increase to boot! And the new commute was a mere 14 miles roundtrip. I quit keeping track of costs at that point.

Though I did joke about getting a Jeep Wrangler if I'd only known I was going to be laid off so soon after buying the Neon. In truth, I have developed a deep affection for the little car. It now has 70,000 miles under it (and on its third set of tires) and can still pull 32MPG numbers with no modified driving habits (through a mountain pass and with AC no less!). My son has it for now until I finish his truck.

Originally Posted by trebuchet03

But that said, do people really buy cars for their economic savings? (keep in mind that SUV's STILL make up about half of the new car market share and almost all cost more than a Prius).

[zjrog]

I had a very long comment I wanted to use in this thread, but decided not to use it. I will admit to being on the side of GW being a natural occurring event, seeing as how there are settlements and history under the European glaciers. The Earth warms and cools as it sees fit, and we can do little to change our comfort zone. It is a good thing all around that we are doing what we can to save fuel and reduce emissions. And all the other things we are doing to protect the environment. Things I too am doing. More needs to be done, but not at the expense of our freedoms or unfair taxation/fees.

I hope my own reasoning doesn't unsettle too many here, too much.