Calling all Toyotas

[3dplane]

Even if it is just the air duct connecting the air filter housing to the throttle body broken (and not after the throttle body) it STILL effects the air metering device wheter it's a mass airflow or the flappy thing my car has,and it IS an input to the ECU if your car is fuel injected. So either way fix it
Barna

BTW the only time I had to put an engine in a Toyota (Pontiac Vibe) was when a lady went 53K miles on an oil change and of course never checked it since the car still ran so why bother(end sarcasm) Ok I admit I'm not a Toyota tech,I'm sure they do it more often.

[Ryland]

All of the issues that you listed have the potential of causing wear and costing more money if not fixed as well as using more fuel.
Poor aliment is going to cause your tires to wear out, it's also going to cause the car to handle poorly giving you less control on wet or snowy roads, you can adjust the aliment your self for free and get it close or you can pay someone else to do it and have the increased tire life be the payback on the out of pocket cost.
An air leak after the throttle body wastes gas but like was mentioned already if it's causing one cylinder to run leaner it can have the long term affect of a warped head or burnt valves or at the very least shortening the life of the O2 sensor that is trying to keep an impossible balance.
Front end being higher is not going to increase the cost of ownership other then you said that it makes the car unstable at highway speeds if it's windy out, that is a safety issue and it could increase the cost of ownership by forcing you to replace you car if it becomes to unstable to stay on the highway and heads off in to the ditch or another vehicle.

So you know what the issues are and that they are most likely costing you more gasoline and could very well be causing increased wear, so why not fix them? I'd start by fixing the manifold leak then take the fuel savings to pay for the other repairs.

[darcane]

Originally Posted by 3dplane

Even if it is just the air duct connecting the air filter housing to the throttle body broken (and not after the throttle body) it STILL effects the air metering device wheter it's a mass airflow or the flappy thing my car has,and it IS an input to the ECU if your car is fuel injected. So either way fix it
Barna

The original poster specifically mentioned his car has a MAP sensor, so it most likely has no MAF or VAF (Vane Air Flow - aka "flappy thing") sensor to meter air before the throttle body.

Either way, a leak before the throttle body shouldn't be called a vacuum leak, because it isn't.

[3dplane]

Originally Posted by darcane

The original poster specifically mentioned his car has a MAP sensor, so it most likely has no MAF or VAF (Vane Air Flow - aka "flappy thing") sensor to meter air before the throttle body.

Having a MAP sensor does not automatically exclude any other sensor! Can you show me any engine that has a mass airflow sensor but does NOT have a MAP sensor? You are probably right though on the OP's car,considering it's age it probably fully relies on the MAP sensor. Which can also have a condition where a vacuum leak creates a RICH condition (instead of lean!) if the MAP sensor is remotely located from the intake plenum,connected with a vacuum line that has cracked or broken. There will be low vacuum reading to the ECU "telling" it to dump fuel because this guy has the throttle nailed! (despite being equipped with a TPS ) I have seen this personally.
BTW thanks for the name Vane Air Flow! So that's what it's called!

Barna

[darcane]

Originally Posted by 3dplane

Having a MAP sensor does not automatically exclude any other sensor! Can you show me any engine that has a mass airflow sensor but does NOT have a MAP sensor? You are probably right though on the OP's car,considering it's age it probably fully relies on the MAP sensor. Which can also have a condition where a vacuum leak creates a RICH condition (instead of lean!) if the MAP sensor is remotely located from the intake plenum,connected with a vacuum line that has cracked or broken. There will be low vacuum reading to the ECU "telling" it to dump fuel because this guy has the throttle nailed! (despite being equipped with a TPS ) I have seen this personally.
BTW thanks for the name Vane Air Flow! So that's what it's called!

Barna

Really? There are two primary ways to determine the mass air flow entering the engine. Either by measuring manifold pressure (with a MAP sensor) and temperature or by measuring the mass air flow directly (with a MAF or VAF, both serve the same purpose). These are two separate ways of determining air flow and manufacturers aren't going to add parts for no reason, so they are generally mutually exclusive.

I say generally, because I've heard of a *few* newer, turbocharged cars that use both, such as the Mitsubishi Lancer Evo X.

I'm not going to list all the cars that have a MAP but no MAF cause I'd be here all day researching and making a very lengthy list. So, I'll limit it to one:

• 1991 Toyota Paseo

Ya know, the OP's car.

[3dplane]

darcane- Please do me a favor and read one more time what I actually said!
Especially the part about having a mass airflow sensor and NOT having MAP sensor on the same vehicle. That will be a shorter list.
Your truck has both mass and map sensors for example!
Any vehicle I have ever seen with a mass airflow sensor also had a MAP sensor! That's all I was trying to say!
THANK YOU!
Barna

[darcane]

Originally Posted by 3dplane

darcane- Please do me a favor and read one more time what I actually said!
Especially the part about having a mass airflow sensor and NOT having MAP sensor on the same vehicle. That will be a shorter list.
Your truck has both mass and map sensors for example!
Any vehicle I have ever seen with a mass airflow sensor also had a MAP sensor! That's all I was trying to say!
THANK YOU!
Barna

Sorry, I did read what you said, but I mucked up what I meant to write in my earlier post. OP's car has MAP but no MAF. And the list of cars with MAF and no MAP will be lengthy, so I'm not going to bother.

But it looks like we both have something to learn here. I did some checking, and yes it looks like my truck does indeed have both. So, I was wrong here. I'm not sure if all newer EFI systems have both, but my truck at least does.

However, the TPI intake (from a 1988 Corvette I think) I have in my garage has MAF only, no MAP. My neighbor's fox body Mustang has a MAF sensor but no MAP (actually, it has the sensor, but they used it for checking atmospheric pressure, and didn't connect it to a vacuum line). There's two to get you started, and there's a lot more pre-OBD II cars with MAF and no MAP, which is what I am more familiar with.

Then there is the EFI I have on my '68 Chevy C10... it has neither.

[Arragonis]

The concensus seems to be get it fixed

[Aveomiler]

We all know that 90% of Toyotas older cars are virtually indestructible, unless they fall victim of being hit by a large truck.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xnWKz7Cthkk

[bige]

Anyone know how to get more MPG out of this truck?
It's a great truck. I just think it should get more MPG.
Please advise. Thanks