Car & Driver disses buying old economy cars to save fuel

[Johnny Mullet]

I am ready for whatever comes my way. I already know it's only going to get worse so why drag it out? Let's get it over with already.

[metromizer]

back on point...

it's no surprise to me that C&D would publish an article that discourages resurecting older fuel efficient cars. Just follow the money...

My girlfriend publishes a small magazine, I can tell you firsthand that it's a for profit enterprise, not a public service (which is where most pepole get tripped up in their thinking about the media IMO).

The advertisers pay the bills, if you want unbiased automotive news, I'm not sure you can find it in a magazine, but on the net forums it's pretty easy.

[some_other_dave]

Originally Posted by metromizer

...if you want unbiased automotive news, I'm not sure you can find it in a magazine, but on the net forums it's pretty easy.

Heh. I would disagree with that last contention. Forums are still biased--ask about Porsches on a Corvette forum some time. Or about the Insight on a Big Off-Roading Truck forum.

Unfortunately, the forum biases aren't always that easy to see... But that doesn't mean they're not there!

-soD

[IndyIan]

On the safety issue, I imagine if you're really worried about it you could install roll cage, a proper seat, and a 4 point harness, and be safer than most cars of any size or year.
So then you'd have a $2000-4000 car thats better than a new car for mileage and safety. It may take you 15 seconds extra to buckle in but probably its a good reminder that you are taking your life in your hands whenever you drive.

As for the $8-12 gas, Europe is a very nice place that seems to be doing very well economically with their artificially high prices. On average people are healthier, probably happier even with such high gas prices, how can that be?

Europe with $3 gas would be a nightmare to live in I'm sure, with jammed roads, terrible pollution, and no good public transportation... oh wait where does that remind me of?

Do I want to move to England tommorow? Not really, a 100 acres within 120km of any big city would be a little more than I could afford! And I like my $18 fishing license instead of the $1000's it costs there. But we could learn a few things about efficiency and common sense when it comes to cars and transportation and it seems expensive gas/energy is a catalyst to become a more efficient society.
Ian

[some_other_dave]

Originally Posted by IndyIan

....you could install roll cage, a proper seat, and a 4 point harness...

Don't forget the helmet, and the HANS device. Roll cage tubes, even when padded correctly, are still very hard and unforgiving to anything (like a skull) that hits them.

-soD

[Formula413]

Originally Posted by some_other_dave

Don't forget the helmet, and the HANS device. Roll cage tubes, even when padded correctly, are still very hard and unforgiving to anything (like a skull) that hits them.

-soD

In race cars a certain type of foam is required on any portion of a roll cage that could be contacted by the driver's head.

[some_other_dave]

Correct, but that foam is designed with the assumption that the head in question is wearing a helmet. Even when properly padded, they are more than hard enough to break your skull. (Believe me, I've bonked my head when poking my head into race cars--that foam is not exactly soft!)

-soD

[jamesqf]

Err... Excuse me? You're wearing a 4-point harness, no? So if your neck stretches enough to hit the roll cage, it'd seem like hitting your head would be the least of your problems :-)

[IndyIan]

Originally Posted by some_other_dave

Don't forget the helmet, and the HANS device. Roll cage tubes, even when padded correctly, are still very hard and unforgiving to anything (like a skull) that hits them.

-soD

Well, I think you could skip the HANS device, but yes a helmet would be necessary if your head has the chance of reaching a tube.
I was actually thinking you could get "out of date" belts from race cars for almost nothing and use those. I know that sounds dangerous to a racer but aren't those belts built for more force? plus I'd think they are way better than any belt in a 95 geo metro!

Anyways, my point is that you can still get your 50mpg+ and be safer than a new volvo for not too much money if you want too. You probably will have to wear a helmet and some people will look at you funny but if you get smacked head on by anything bigger than a K-car it would be worth it!
Ian

[some_other_dave]

Originally Posted by jamesqf

Err... Excuse me? You're wearing a 4-point harness, no? So if your neck stretches enough to hit the roll cage, it'd seem like hitting your head would be the least of your problems :-)

Your neck isn't stretching (much)--the belts are. Plus unless you make the belts uncomfortably tight, you will move around in them. More than you would think, in fact... (And unless you have a sub strap keeping the lap belt down where it belongs, you'll be moving even more than that!!)

Remember that a full cage would also have a fore-and-aft member running along at the top of the driver's window, so if you're a little on the tall side for your car you will be hitting that one.

Since a helmet adds weight to your head, it is prudent to have a HANS device (or similar head restraint system) on while you are wearing one.

These systems are engineered to work together--as systems. Don't fool yourself into thinking that you can just use one or two parts of the system and be "just as safe" or even "somewhere near as safe". You can, in fact, put yourself in more danger.

Race car safety systems and street car safety systems are very different things. Mixing and matching them is unlikely to help anything, and in fact may very well make things more dangerous.

I've done a little bit of research into this over the years....

-soD