Car & Driver disses buying old economy cars to save fuel

[RH77]

I've been rear-ended about 4 times, with no damage.

I drive for work, so I don't know how many miles I've racked-up since I started driving -- 1/2-million?

I had the usual teenager bumps and knocks, ended up in a ditch or two back then.

When I took Ambulance and Fire Apparatus driver training, their stats indicated that most accidents occur while backing up. So, we generally had a "backer" guide us into the garage or whatever. 10's of thousands of those miles without an incident. Just got stuck in the snow, but that doesn't count. No damage done.

Of the 100's of rental cars driven, I came out from a restaurant once and found one had been backed into. Company insurance covered it. Otherwise knock on wood.

On Teggy: Freak stuff like ice flying off of a tractor-trailer and denting the roof and destroying the windshield, slid into an F-150 at 1 mph on ice (no damage on either side and I knew the guy), and someone at taco bell backed into the car and took off. Chased after them and they denied the whole thing. Very minor scuff to the bumper. The worse damage was at a mall parking lot: very windy day. It must have propelled another door into the rear quarter and dented it in about 3-4 inches x 12 inches in length. Very upset, but popped most of it out. Last but not least, hail damage x2 (new paint!)

In the essence of full disclosure, I'll admit to knocking the driver's mirror off of 4 cars I've owned . They were break-aways, so EZ fixes.

That's my story -- stickin' to it.

BDC -- that's an interesting device. Do you know if it's legal? It seems it would do the trick well.

RH77

[tjts1]

Originally Posted by rmay635703

As far as I know that has little to do with vehicle safety or driving habits, its everything to do with improved roads and removal of 2 lane suicide roads. Most have argued the improvement would have come anyway because of the improved roads.

Well as far as I know, you're wrong. You've failed to provide any evidence to back up your claims.

[rmay635703]

Originally Posted by tjts1

Well as far as I know, you're wrong. You've failed to provide any evidence to back up your claims.

Your statistics don't support your claims either, generally they do not provide the following information that would validate whether or not survivability increased.

1. In the real world what was the 1 year survival rate after the accident?
Sure you might walk away from the accident but die days, weeks or even months later from related problems from the accident. Few studies from the "usual" places say much in this regard.
(I can tell you the few studies that go into this area aren't flattering)

2. In the real world what were the implications from collisions at real world speeds aka more than 30mph?

3. When comparing different years are the type of collisions, speeds, etc documented and categorized so trends can be viewed in terms of the type of accident, speed, type of road, and the # of passengers etc. There are many 2 lane country roads I know of that are hotspots for huge numbers of accidents, in fact sections of our local 29 was one at one time until it became a 4 lane road.

When using "general" statistics it is very important what kind of accident it was and what type of road/conditions it was on if you are to compare whether or not the safety of cars or environmental/infastructural changes was to blame for different results now versus when people were primarily driving on 2 way highways. You should also note that cars that have rear passengers many times have one group live and the other not, this is independant of the year of vehicle. So in other words the number of people typically in a vehicle can affect the survivability of an accident.

I can note that during the last 15 years the county has improved how quickly and thoroughly it cleans the snow and ice off the roads including country roads, when I was a kid the roads were rarely plowed except on the main 2 lane highway (there was no 4 lane until recently). And every year they seem to get better and doing it.

Things like this are much more important in regard to the number of accidents and the type of accidents than you may think and in fact I know the newpaper touted a 50% reduction of accidents once the 4 lane went through here. (now to see if I can find it)

There are liars, damn liars, and then there are statistics.

[wagonman76]

Originally Posted by rmay635703

I can note that during the last 15 years the county has improved how quickly and thoroughly it cleans the snow and ice off the roads including country roads, when I was a kid the roads were rarely plowed except on the main 2 lane highway (there was no 4 lane until recently). And every year they seem to get better and doing it.

Must be nice. When I was a kid, I used to see snowplows all the time, and they kept the roads well maintained. But around here theyve gotten worse and worse over the years, even to the point where last season they decided to quit plowing all but the main highways and a few other roads on weekends. One side road out in BFE they did decide to keep plowing, the one that leads to 2 ski resorts where the tourists flock to, imagine that. One weekend we got like 16" of really thick heavy snow, and any local economy we had left was ground to a halt for a few days. Need an ambulance? Forget it. Unless you had a jacked up 4x4 you werent going anywhere. Well at least recently they decided it didnt save them any money anyway, so maybe theyll at least keep the roads passable this season.

[rmay635703]

Originally Posted by wagonman76

Must be nice. When I was a kid, I used to see snowplows all the time, and they kept the roads well maintained. But around here theyve gotten worse and worse over the years, even to the point where last season they decided to quit plowing all but the main highways and a few other roads on weekends. One side road out in BFE they did decide to keep plowing, the one that leads to 2 ski resorts where the tourists flock to, imagine that. One weekend we got like 16" of really thick heavy snow, and any local economy we had left was ground to a halt for a few days. Need an ambulance? Forget it. Unless you had a jacked up 4x4 you werent going anywhere. Well at least recently they decided it didnt save them any money anyway, so maybe theyll at least keep the roads passable this season.

That sucks, sounds like parts of Iowa or Montanna. Around here I cannot complain about snow removal, things are much better than they were even 10 years ago, remembering how they never plowed in the township and we had to avoid the areas without tire marks lest we spin out.

[RH77]

Originally Posted by rmay635703

That sucks, sounds like parts of Iowa or Montanna. Around here I cannot complain about snow removal, things are much better than they were even 10 years ago, remembering how they never plowed in the township and we had to avoid the areas without tire marks lest we spin out.

Reminds me of rural Southeastern Ohio. The same day I got the ambulance stuck, I slid into a ditch on the way home (stayed on the folks' farm for the Winter break). It just wasn't a day for anyone to be driving (it was hour 20 at that point in the day) -- icy low spot on a curve and into the lowlands I went.

After trying to reach someone on the CB (pre-cell days), a snow plow comes by. In full uniform, I tried to get their attention but they went right by! Luckily some high school kids in a lifted Ford Pickup pulled the Civic out 10 minutes later. Thanks ODOT! (not)

(got stuck again on a hill and walked the 5 miles home -- had my folks pull me back with the K2500-- lost a muffler in the process). 2 feet of snow that day. Rare event.

RH77

[Bror Jace]

Completely off-topic guys, but if you get serious snow in your area, you should be using snow tires 4 months of the year. "All-seasons" are compromise tires for average driving conditions.

[tasdrouille]

Originally Posted by Bror Jace

Completely off-topic guys, but if you get serious snow in your area, you should be using snow tires 4 months of the year. "All-seasons" are compromise tires for average driving conditions.

Here it's a law. Everyone need to have winter tires on between Dec 15th and March 15th.

[moorecomp]

All,

The first thing that is told to any new ecomodder, is that the number one thing that you can do to improve your FE is "It's the driver" or "Technique", not "Get a Civic or Metro". Of course there are cars that are more FE than others out of the box, but it is the driver that has the biggest affect on mpg's (Kudo's to W.G.). A driver whose focus is on FE will have much better mpg's than one who does not. A driver whose focus is on safety will be much safer than one who does not. Of course there are cars that by design and features are safer than others, but the driver makes the biggest difference. It is interesting to note that in aviation, the PRIMARY focus on safety is "Avoidance", not devices and designs that prevent injury after the accident. These things are SECONDARY, yes they are important too, but not the MOST important. Do you think the flying public would feel safer if we had more accidents and less fatalities or less accidents overall? Pilots undergo many hours of training and recurrent training, planes are maintained to high standards, critical aircraft systems are reduntant, all to AVOID accidents. The BEST way to stay safe is to avoid the accident in the first place.

The opinion of a hypermiler and an A&P mechanic.

[Formula413]

Originally Posted by moorecomp

It is interesting to note that in aviation, the PRIMARY focus on safety is "Avoidance", not devices and designs that prevent injury after the accident.

This is also very true of motorcycling, with good reason.