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Old 02-21-2017, 01:50 PM   #121 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by craysus View Post
These are great in general documents, however I am hesitant to pull a big cummins down to find we would only gain a percent or so at max..
Has anyone modified a big cummins and tested to find firm improvements in fuel efficiency?

A lot of these VE improvements definately do improve horsepower, and sometimes that then has a negative effect on fuel efficiency.
Simple case would be putting a set of extractors on a honda civic..depending on the design you will increase the VE of the engine, and expand the useable rev range by 500rpm, effectively shifting the powerband upwards ..with a corresponding DROP in fuel efficiency due to a sudden torque hole down lower..

I would have thought Cummins would have had this fairly well under control from the factory..(Maybe less so on the earlier engines?)
I believe many hp and torque mods yield fe improvement with driver restraint. That's the hard part. More power on tap and you use it. Do truckers use some of the same hyper milling techniques outlined in this forum? I think your incentive program might be your best (mod).

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Old 03-13-2017, 01:06 PM   #122 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ctmaybury@yahoo.com View Post
I think your incentive program might be your best (mod).
I think it was on this forum that I read about an incentive program where the top mileage driver received a motorcycle! Sounds crazy at first until you realize how much money in fuel the company saves. Also a good way to guarantee near 100% participation from the drivers.

Enjoying this thread. Any updates on mileage from changes you've started to implement?
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Old 03-14-2017, 02:46 AM   #123 (permalink)
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Yes, the incentive we are putting inplace is considerably less unfortunately..however, if you look at the latest spreadsheet ( I have corrected a HEAP of data, and also noticed a number of faults in my formulas that needed correcting) you will see the driver improvement (After all the mods) is still very significant.

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I am just waiting on emperical testing to finalise on the engine mods (Being tested on dyno, logged, and recorded..with fuel burn, Nox, and HP/TQ being mapped fully..Along with many other metrics like temps etc)
After this is completed I will be approaching the directors to proceed to the next level of testing..

Of note, the Red/Black/Green on the $$$ columns refer to
Green - Payback in less than 12 months
Black - Payback in less than 18 months
Red - Payback exceeds 18 months.. (I might exclude these parts as they may not be viable for short term returns!)
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Old 03-21-2017, 12:11 AM   #124 (permalink)
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Work it out where you can fund the lesser expensive, highest return mods (aero flaps, tabs?) with an initial investment and then get to pool all the excess fuel money into an aero-mod account. But make sure you include driver re-training to make the money come in super quick so you can try out some of the more expensive mods in a short time!

And start lobbying to see if trailer tails can be excluded from maximum length limitations, especially if they only activate at speed. That is low hanging fruit if the law can be modified.
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Old 03-21-2017, 12:46 AM   #125 (permalink)
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I have compared the 2 models..(With the long ROI examples removed from the second model..)

Interestingly the longer ROI are also the HARDER to achieve mods..so, makes sense to start at the 80% mark, and then push further if effective..

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Above shows everything..(Latest estimates on realistic returns included)

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This second sheet, shows the huge improvement in ROI by removing some of the items in the list..yes, the $$$ gained after the payback period are slightly lower..but..3-->6 months ROI is substantial for an operating business..
Just waiting on the engine modifications to be verified 100%..

I have calculated everything on a 80% reduction per additional modification when stacking..
I have tried to be conservative by showing approx a 50% reduction in benefit on the "realistic" columns vs the "quoted / estimated" returns the manufacturers claim..
Obviously the Hydrogen is a huge huge huge benefit, but...the system I am working on so far IS returning these numbers (Empirically measured on a Dyno..not road tested / proven beyond doubt as yet..)

Once I get to the next level of EMPIRICAL testing, and can prove a few things, I will be opening a new business consulting to fleets, I dont wish to make any claims until proven 100%, and am not a used car salesman so cant sell something that doesnt work.....so I am going to keep a few little things under wraps for the time being...for example HOW the hydrogen system is able to provide better claims than HHO (Relatively easy to provide better than something that uses almost as much energy to create as it makes..lets be honest lol)..
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Old 03-21-2017, 08:56 AM   #126 (permalink)
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I think hho uses more energy to create than the yield.
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Old 03-21-2017, 08:44 PM   #127 (permalink)
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Quote:
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I think hho uses more energy to create than the yield.
I believe that 100% in petrol installations, however Diesel does respond better to Hydrogen injection. Diesel will use the power of the Hydrogen , plus with the improvement in flame front / and diesel distribution it ends up making more power than it uses...
However, HHO is inherently flawed in many areas, and whilst it DOES make more power than it uses on diesel setups, it is far from optimal..
Injecting Hydrogen from stored gas correctly is very beneficial on Diesels.. (HHO without the energy drain), however also has major problems in terms of supply / refill / bottles..it is far cheaper to refill than LPG / Propane however and burns cleaner, cooler, and with much better combustion properties..so is a good thing..

The System I am working with however is on demand (Like HHO in that single aspect), cleans the emissions up dramatically, is basically maintenance free, and doesnt require adding distilled water and electrolytes..importantly it also has very little impact / energy used to create..(5amps @ 12v to "help" in the creation (To ensure temps are high enough)...).. otherwise, it uses the engines "waste" products only...
VERY promising technology with diesel reductions in the order of 50% showing on the dyno with 3% +- Power/Torque adjustments....but too early to certify as yet...another 5-6 weeks to finalise our testing on it through phase 1...
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Old 03-21-2017, 10:55 PM   #128 (permalink)
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Do a dyno run running the system from shore power to show total gain vs power consumption .
---Is your system harvesting H from the hydrocarbons in the ehxsost?
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Old 03-22-2017, 12:36 AM   #129 (permalink)
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Do a dyno run running the system from shore power to show total gain vs power consumption .
---Is your system harvesting H from the hydrocarbons in the ehxsost?
Simplistically...yes.
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Old 03-22-2017, 10:44 AM   #130 (permalink)
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Very interested to see the results when you get a few trucks outfitted.

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