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Old 01-13-2018, 07:26 PM   #801 (permalink)
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"But those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." -C.S. Lewis

Freedom is allowing people to make the wrong choice. By trying to manipulate the information and "cook" the science, they attempt to steal that from the people and force us to follow what they have decided is best for us. Not to mention the $$$ in the green movement and government funding, billions of dollars tend to sway peoples opinions as they tend to like to stay employed.
Maybe they're right, but they hurt there own cause by doing so.

Also, should we hurt ourselves economically while China gives no damn at all? They have turned lush forests into deserts, but hey lets slit our own throats to go for that most green and expensive manufacturing process while they couldn't give a **** less. Taking pollution controls to a reasonable limit is fine, pushing for the most clean emissions technically possible is stupid as it drives up manufacturing costs to the point you simply can't compete.

Also what is this talk about wealth redistribution Oil Pan?

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Old 01-13-2018, 08:13 PM   #802 (permalink)
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I'm not really interested in climate change. What does bother me is the strategic and economic problems that reliance on foreign energy sources brings, and that for me is a good enough reason to be looking at energy expenditure and renewable sources.
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Old 01-13-2018, 08:31 PM   #803 (permalink)
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I like the way you think Lemmy.
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Old 01-13-2018, 08:41 PM   #804 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DSMHondaGuy View Post
Freedom is allowing people to make the wrong choice.
That's exactly the meaning of my facetious signature; "Give me absolute safety or give me death!". A play on "Give me liberty or give me death".

Collectively we deserve the outcome that we created or allowed to exist. For instance, US citizens deserve the outcome of electing Donald Trump as president, both the good and bad.

I'm okay mostly letting market forces lead alternative energy and transitioning to new technology without coercion. What I'm not okay with is setting arbitrary limits of CO2 for arbitrary areas of industry for unquantified levels of "good" for the environment. If something is going to cost more either in time/money/economy, the justification must be shown to be of greater benefit in a quantifiable way. When it comes to CO2 emissions, it has got to be a nearly 100% collaborative effort from the world, or it's doomed to benefit those who cheat, and harm that do not.
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Old 01-13-2018, 09:02 PM   #805 (permalink)
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^ Well said, and I agree. Which is why until countries like China start to come close to making an equal effort, I find it very hard to care.
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Old 01-13-2018, 11:59 PM   #806 (permalink)
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Careful what you don't care about.

cleantechnica.com:China Activates World’s Largest Floating Solar Power Plant

The irony is strong with this one:
Quote:
The most interesting thing about the floating solar power plant in Huainan, however, is that the lake supporting it was created by rain after the surrounding land collapsed in a process known as subsidence following intensive coal mining operations over a period of years.
The shading reduces evaporation. I saw another article where they are building on stilts over fish ponds. It may be too little too late, but they're not not trying.

The USofA could bore a tunnel from the Pacific to Death Valley, harvest electricity from the flow with inline turbines and grow algae for biodiesel. But we don't.
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Old 01-14-2018, 12:40 AM   #807 (permalink)
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Good points DSM!

I like vegetation, clean air, and moderation--in theory. I am not great putting any of that in practice.

I do not want summers to be any warmer, either.

I would like coastal nuclear-powered desalination plants.

If the sea level is rising, couldn't you slow or counteract that by providing communities with more fresh water?

My answer to places being to warm is always to create shade. The poles are melting?

Build them shade.
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Old 01-14-2018, 01:23 AM   #808 (permalink)
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Quote:
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Careful what you don't care about.

cleantechnica.com:China Activates World’s Largest Floating Solar Power Plant

The irony is strong with this one:


The shading reduces evaporation. I saw another article where they are building on stilts over fish ponds. It may be too little too late, but they're not not trying.

The USofA could bore a tunnel from the Pacific to Death Valley, harvest electricity from the flow with inline turbines and grow algae for biodiesel. But we don't.
When that sort of thing becomes a trend then I may change my mind. Until then, I'll remain very skeptical.
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Old 01-14-2018, 01:23 AM   #809 (permalink)
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Xist — I would like coastal nuclear- tidal-powered desalination plants.
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Old 01-14-2018, 05:13 AM   #810 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DSMHondaGuy View Post
Also what is this talk about wealth redistribution Oil Pan?
Part of the non solution to global warming was going to have the the US pay a cap load of money to the UN.
Then the UN was supposedly going to give the money to poor 3rd world nations so they could buy solar panels.
In reality it's the UN. The money was never going to make it any where near 3rd world nation, it would be used to throw epic hooker, booze and blow parties. That's where you get a bus load of hookers, shoe box of full of uncut coke and a barge of booze and party for a week or how ever long it takes till it's all gone.

The only reason I can find that coastal power hadn't taken off is a rough storm will wreck your coastal power systems. Last I saw Ireland has the only one that might work, it is a pure wave power unit and can be hauled inland during rough seas.

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