Combined EPA Rating ... cheaters up in here or just a big misunderstanding??

[Markmysite]

I was browsing through the EM Garage and sorted by model to compare what others with my cars are seeing with the mileage. I've been noticing that some people have mileage sig's that show a 70% improvement over EPA and their mileage #'s are close to mine. I didn't think there could be that big of a difference between model years (and I was right). I looked each car up on Fuel Economy to check their combined EPA rating.

What I have learned is that many, many of the cars listed on here have EPA values that are way off. I won't name any names and I am assuming that people just put the wrong values by mistake ... not in an effort to make their % look better ... heh. I know there is some confusion with the old vs. the new EPA rating method, and I think we should all use the new method for continuity. They are also lower values which does help your % too.

So what is the big deal? For fun, I changed my real EPA value of 29mpg combined to 27mpg combined like some other people have with my same car. My percentage went from 30.3% to 40.1% improvement over the EPA rating!!! That is showing a false value of over a 30% improvement in gas mileage. Show me a mod that can achieve that. It's the best mod for the money yet. Just cheat and don't put your vehicles true EPA combined rating ... put the city value like a lot of people did ... lol.

Seriously though, we should all be playing fair ... don't ya think?

Please go to Fuel Economy to find your real combined EPA rating. Click the top left where it says "find and compare cars" and then do your year, make, model, and engine type. It makes a mig difference if you are manual or automatic too. A simple 2mpg off can change your % a huge amount.

I don't know if there's any way possible to link our values to the gov website, but that would solve the misunderstanding problem.

[SVOboy]

Are you using the new or the other numbers?

To be perfectly honest, it's not a competition so I don't even look at anyone else's stuff, . When the garage gets revised the EPA numbers will likely be autofilling, so this won't be an issue in the future.

[Daox]

We do have a link to fueleconomy.gov when you edit your vehicle in the garage. And while we do not actively police the garage, if we see something that is incorrect we will ask that it be fixed, or we will do it.

[Markmysite]

Originally Posted by SVOboy

Are you using the new or the other numbers?

To be perfectly honest, it's not a competition so I don't even look at anyone else's stuff, . When the garage gets revised the EPA numbers will likely be autofilling, so this won't be an issue in the future.

I'm using the new #'s yes. I know it's not really a competition, although people will use values of cars they see and try to strive for what they are getting. That's how I noticed it. Pull up a car in the garage and look up a couple of their values. I think people are doing it by mistake and probably putting their city #'s without even realizing it.

Good to know you're revising the garage. Being able to search in the garage would be awesome. The sorting feature is helpful as it is though. I was using it to compare Corolla's, Vibe, Matrix since they are all similar and have the same base engine. I wanted to see what others are doing to get over 50mpg.

[azraelswrd]

We have a sort function? (shows how much I use the garage beyond entering my own stuff)

[taco]

i have min correst 16 city 20 hwy 17 combined. for a 1998 toyota tacoma 4x4 5 speed 2.7l reg cab.

wow that is alot..

but i have noticed the same thing wiht the garage.

but i just noticed a 2005 awd matrix auto has the combined rating of 25mpg, and a fwd matrix has a city rating of 25mpg then the manual matrix has a combimed 29mpg while the auto awd has a 29 hwy mpg.

maybe that cofuses people? i dont know.

edit again...
i noticed my 2007 camry i4 auto has a different rating than the same car in 2008, no differences at all ?

[99metro]

Make sure that the car you are comparing to is exactly like yours - same year, engine, transmission, trim - these all make a difference in the fueleconomy.gov values. Manufactures can make small differences between model years with the seemingly same spec vehicle, enough to make MPG differences. I agree we should all be using the same "new" standard. I noticed a few vehicles like mine are still using the old EPA values.

I believe playing fair is the only way to go. I have noticed that there are some who only drive less than a mile, or a very short distance, and claim/post their 115mpg or so. Gee, that was great, but I could do that too. Then they are the top dog in a category when it comes to fuel economy. Are they dishonest? Technically no, but this is very misleading. I personally believe things should be documented tank to tank, and not using a Scangauge or similar for short distance stuff. I see this on other fuel economy documentation sites also.

rant done

[HyperMiler]

Another thing to keep in mind is that the percent of driving in the city/highway may be different than someone else so your combined mpg will be different. For instance, my combined mpg using fueleconomy.gov's standard values (15,000 miles and 55% city driving) is 29. However, when I put in how many actual miles I drive (24,350), and that I do 25% city driving, that combined mpg jumps up to 32.

[99metro]

Originally Posted by HyperMiler

Another thing to keep in mind is that the percent of driving in the city/highway may be different than someone else so your combined mpg will be different. For instance, my combined mpg using fueleconomy.gov's standard values (15,000 miles and 55% city driving) is 29. However, when I put in how many actual miles I drive (24,350), and that I do 25% city driving, that combined mpg jumps up to 32.

That's right! You can have your own custom city/combined/highway MPG based on your particular driving. I almost forgot about that feature at fueleconomy.gov.

[MechEngVT]

Maybe the garage should specify which ratings you should enter. I entered the "new" ratings for my vehicles without any customized settings (your percentage highway/city affects the combined number if you save your customizations). Personally I felt slightly disingenuous doing this because I typically felt the "old" ratings were fair and accurate for my vehicles and it even wasn't hard to best the highway rating on a combined tank, but the web site seems intent on pushing the MY2008 ratings so I used them. Besides, on new vehicles the "old" ratings are no longer available. I wish they were, or that the new ratings only applied to certain vehicles (ahem...hybrids) and not others (diesels).

[wagonman76]

Im just using the new ratings to stay on a fair playing field. The old rating is only 1 mpg different, or about 5%. Besides, some cars dont have old ratings. The reasons for the new ratings could be many. It could be for how many people drive today. It could also be for the 10% ethanol that is in nearly all gas now, when it wasnt back then.

I agree that many of us can get better mileage than the EPA rating without trying too hard. But I dont think we should be punished for it. There are also a lot of asinine and clueless drivers out on the road that would get worse than the EPA rating.

[homeworkhome53]

Yeah, That's what this world needs, Mileage Police. Cheaters, where in the @#$% did that come from.

homeworkhome

[2000mustang fan]

Originally Posted by Markmysite

I was browsing through the EM Garage and sorted by model to compare what others with my cars are seeing with the mileage. I've been noticing that some people have mileage sig's that show a 70% improvement over EPA and their mileage #'s are close to mine. I didn't think there could be that big of a difference between model years (and I was right). I looked each car up on Fuel Economy to check their combined EPA rating.

What I have learned is that many, many of the cars listed on here have EPA values that are way off. I won't name any names and I am assuming that people just put the wrong values by mistake ... not in an effort to make their % look better ... heh. I know there is some confusion with the old vs. the new EPA rating method, and I think we should all use the new method for continuity. They are also lower values which does help your % too.

So what is the big deal? For fun, I changed my real EPA value of 29mpg combined to 27mpg combined like some other people have with my same car. My percentage went from 30.3% to 40.1% improvement over the EPA rating!!! That is showing a false value of over a 30% improvement in gas mileage. Show me a mod that can achieve that. It's the best mod for the money yet. Just cheat and don't put your vehicles true EPA combined rating ... put the city value like a lot of people did ... lol.

Seriously though, we should all be playing fair ... don't ya think?

Please go to Fuel Economy to find your real combined EPA rating. Click the top left where it says "find and compare cars" and then do your year, make, model, and engine type. It makes a mig difference if you are manual or automatic too. A simple 2mpg off can change your % a huge amount.

I don't know if there's any way possible to link our values to the gov website, but that would solve the misunderstanding problem.

I think that you should also know that people do live in DIFFERENT areas, mark this some people do more highway driving so their combined EPA will be higher than someone with the same car who does more city driving with the same make model and year of the car. Just so you know there is a edit personalize valeus on fuel economy.gov. I do more city driving hence the lower EPA rating I have about 80%city driving and 20% highway so therefore my combined EPA is around 18 I checked on fueleconomy.gov because I thought 20MPG rating was too high for what I was getting in the City which sometimes varies from really low to near 18City. What I am trying to say that this argument is useless, because you do not know where the person drives more so if you would do a lot of city driving the combined EPA would actually equal the city rating for that car. EVeryone is Different with where they drive maybe you should take time to consider that before you go ranting on about how everyone is wrong and should use strict default vales with 50/50 city highway driving. look it up it's THERE! you go to compare side by side on fueleconomy.gov click the year make and model for your car then you hit personalize which is your your vaues under fuel economics. Thank you and Good day.

[Markmysite]

Originally Posted by homeworkhome53

Yeah, That's what this world needs, Mileage Police. Cheaters, where in the @#$% did that come from.

homeworkhome

that was funny

[Markmysite]

Originally Posted by 2000mustang fan

I think that you should also know that people do live in DIFFERENT areas, mark this some people do more highway driving so their combined EPA will be higher than someone with the same car who does more city driving with the same make model and year of the car. Just so you know there is a edit personalize valeus on fuel economy.gov. I do more city driving hence the lower EPA rating I have about 80%city driving and 20% highway so therefore my combined EPA is around 18 I checked on fueleconomy.gov because I thought 20MPG rating was too high for what I was getting in the City which sometimes varies from really low to near 18City. What I am trying to say that this argument is useless, because you do not know where the person drives more so if you would do a lot of city driving the combined EPA would actually equal the city rating for that car. EVeryone is Different with where they drive maybe you should take time to consider that before you go ranting on about how everyone is wrong and should use strict default vales with 50/50 city highway driving. look it up it's THERE! you go to compare side by side on fueleconomy.gov click the year make and model for your car then you hit personalize which is your your vaues under fuel economics. Thank you and Good day.

Yes you can change the values, but if you go out and look at a new car they have that sticker on the window. It's the accepted standard formula 45/55 that all automakers must use per the EPA. I "think" that's what they had in mind in the EM garage.

Ben, please correct me if I am wrong (it's been known to happen every once in a blue moon ... haha).

My whole point is new comers to this website (like me) are looking for ways to improve the MPG. Many are going to look for others with the same car to see what they are doing and how it can help them.

[Tony Raine]

you can tell i'm not cheating

[Vince-HX]

I know some of us get better in city mileage then highway because of p&g and eoc.

So should i change my combined rating to a 75 city/ 25 highway equivalent because thats the ratio I drive? That would really make me seem like a cheater.



I didn't know there was a competition, whats the prize?

[ankit]

Wow I never realized that I could just put my combined mileage in, not being teh same as EPA combined. I say this because most of my driving is done in a city/suburb area with lots of stop signs and traffic lights.

I don't think people are actually cheating. Why would they cheat there is nothing to win. I mean if they "cheat" they are just getting a false sense of accomplishment. Most of these decrepencies are most likely from what others are saying as the combined routes being different from another hypermiler's and some errors.

[cfg83]

Markmysite -

I don't think it's deliberate. If someone boasts, it's easy enough to find the error. I am a "believer" in the old EPA values because they're harder to beat. But, I use the new (projected for my car because the new test was never done on my car) EPA values because that's better for comparing old to new car performance.

If you look below, I have put the EPA website in my sig.

CarloSW2

[Z man]

Yeah I looked around to find the correct rating.

29mpg combined.