Diesel Hybrid

[Arragonis]

Originally Posted by Clev

What about replacing the turbo on a TDi with an electric motor? The electric motor could provide the extra power normally supplied by the turbo during acceleration, and the lack of engine braking would really suit regen braking. The cost of the electrics would at least partially be offset by the elimination of the turbo.

Isn't this just a NA Diesel engine combined with Honda style IMA ? One issue could be that there are few (if any ?) NA Diesels in Europe because their emissions levels are far lower than for a turbo.

I just wonder if adding the Hybrid gubbins to something like a Peugeot 308 or Golf TDi would make something which is significantly better for FE, compared with making Diesel units smaller and more powerful - e.g. the newer 1.6 TDi. The engine option is cheaper.

[Frank Lee]

Originally Posted by Clev

So are electric motors.

Turbos can easily develop meaningful levels of boost.

[euromodder]

Originally Posted by Clev

What about replacing the turbo on a TDi with an electric motor?

Have you ever driven a VW 1.6 SDi or the NA 1.9D PSA diesel ?

They didn't run too good, were sluggish and the FC wasn't any better than the TDi or DT turbo versions.

Currently, NA diesels on the EU market are few and far between.

[Piwoslaw]

Originally Posted by Arragonis

Isn't this just a NA Diesel engine combined with Honda style IMA ? One issue could be that there are few (if any ?) NA Diesels in Europe because their emissions levels are far lower than for a turbo.

I think you mean higher emissions (as in worse), or maybe lower in that they are only EURO 1 or 2, instead of EURO 4 or more.

Originally Posted by Arragonis

I just wonder if adding the Hybrid gubbins to something like a Peugeot 308 or Golf TDi would make something which is significantly better for FE, compared with making Diesel units smaller and more powerful - e.g. the newer 1.6 TDi. The engine option is cheaper.

There is only so much you can do with a smaller engine. The first step to a hydrid is a start&stop system, with intelligent alternator on&off (sometimes called regenerative braking). PSA put its second generation start&stop system only on diesels (e-HDi).

[Arragonis]

Originally Posted by Piwoslaw

I think you mean higher emissions (as in worse), or maybe lower in that they are only EURO 1 or 2, instead of EURO 4 or more.

Yes, the NA Diesels had lower emissions limits which were tricky for the older IDI rotary pump things. The GM Astra suddenly got a low pressure Turbo in place of the old NA 1.7 Isuzu unit for that reason.

Originally Posted by Piwoslaw

There is only so much you can do with a smaller engine. The first step to a hydrid is a start&stop system, with intelligent alternator on&off (sometimes called regenerative braking). PSA put its second generation start&stop system only on diesels (e-HDi).

I'm not so sure, I think there is more to come here. 10 or so years ago I would not have expected a mainstream hatchback to have 170hp from a 1.4 Petrol or indeed a 1.6 HDi to have 110 bhp (although I think the 407 was just coming out at the time). I suspect there are 1.2 or smaller HDi / TDi units under development which may have the 90hp that the old 1.9 TD XUDTs had in 1993. After all Citroen I think made a 1.4 16v HDi with 90hp for the C3 in 2001-2002.



Combine those with start/stop and regen braking, package this into something light and aero like the C1 (or a larger version) and you could hit an average well over 70 (imperial).

Once you are there would adding the bits needed for a Hybrid - batteries, generators, motors and software etc. to make it work, - would you gain very much vs cost to make it worthwhile ? I'm thinking both in terms of use and in terms of buying.

The thing that attracts me to something like the C1 is the lightness and simplicity. I know that others have tapped about aero being more important than weight but I think that depends on the type of driving you do. For my normal day to day (traffic and some highway / motorway) a C1 would work.

And with a turbo it has a wick and a wick can be turned up and it is useful for P&G.

[Billy_BAD_Boy]

Actually there are three diesel hybrids currently known to be developed. Two of them are still prototypes and one is scheduled for mass production from april 2011.

Peugeot 3008 Diesel Hybrid Peugeot launches 3008 Hybrid4, world's first production diesel through-the-road hybrid — Autoblog Green
BMW Vision Efficient Dynamics BMW Vision EfficientDynamics spotted during photoshoot in Abu Dhabi
VW XL1 Volkswagen brings 260-mpg XL1 Concept a step closer to reality — Autoblog Green

P.S. As I was typing Volvo introduced new diesel hybrid Volvo Introducing 2012 V60 Plug-In Hybrid at the 2011 Geneva Motor Show - Rumor Central

Looks like bright future for the diesel hybrids.

[euromodder]

Originally Posted by Billy_BAD_Boy

P.S. As I was typing Volvo introduced new diesel hybrid Volvo Introducing 2012 V60 Plug-In Hybrid at the 2011 Geneva Motor Show - Rumor Central

From what I've read, it seems it won't be based on the frugal 1.6L PSA HDi diesel, but on the rather thirsty 2.4L Volvo 5 cylinder diesel (D5).

[Billy_BAD_Boy]

Originally Posted by euromodder

From what I've read, it seems it won't be based on the frugal 1.6L PSA HDi diesel, but on the rather thirsty 2.4L Volvo 5 cylinder diesel (D5).

Yep. And this fuel consumption of 1.9/100 looks like mirage for me.

[Arragonis]

Again I wonder about the benefits of Diesel + Hybrid vs smaller and more powerful Diesel.

As a worked example, apart from avoiding the London Congestion Charge and giving Range Rover owners a worse car to point at, does the Lexus RX450h have any real reason to exist ?

[euromodder]

Originally Posted by Billy_BAD_Boy

Yep. And this fuel consumption of 1.9/100 looks like mirage for me.

Like the 230mpg for the Volt.
And probably calculated in a similar way to make it look good.