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Old 07-05-2017, 05:12 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by oil pan 4 View Post
That doesn't include building the water fuel mixing rig, which no one really seems to know how to build. How much does that learning curve cost?
They know.

So my suggestion is to use a Langevin Transducer running at 20khz



What you'll be trying to do is vibrating the fuel into a temporary emulsion.

Anyway, that's my suggestion on where to start.

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Old 07-05-2017, 08:17 AM   #12 (permalink)
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That is exactly what I was going to recommend, ultrasonic/hydrosonic emulsion onboard just before the injector.

A small amount of surfactant speeds thing up as well.

It's not that emulsion is without merit, it's just hard to do correctly and safely (to your engine)
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Old 07-05-2017, 09:19 AM   #13 (permalink)
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I was originally thinking of just using an actual food grade blender. But yes, to do this correctly is more complicated than just that.

As far as my particular engine goes I'd have to do this before the injection pump. I see no way to blend water in after the pump and before the injectors on my engine. And what would be the benefit seeing how the injector return line goes back to the injector pump?
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Old 07-05-2017, 01:20 PM   #14 (permalink)
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btw, this is a link to a company that sells the Langevin Transducers of a reasonable quality : https://www.steminc.com/pzt/en/bolt-clamped-langevin

and 3-way fluid mixing valves : 3 Way Valve | eBay
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Old 07-05-2017, 07:14 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Some companies are making a go of it for the heavy truck industry... (Where you can get away with 20k install prices..)

Fierce Fuel Systems

However, they seem to hit the wall at around 30% emulsion percentages..I tried getting hold of some for my testing, but unfortunately they seem to be having growing pains for their company (AKA I am uncertain on their stability!)

I have been testing the standard water injection along with Hydrogen fairly heavily, and if using decent grade hydrogen (Not already full of water vapour at varying quantities from electrolysis!), it looks like the engines start to stumble at 40%+ injection rates..(3 x staged injectors to achieve this on a big rig)....
Have to be careful WHICH engines you install it on however..as some with the H20 sensors in the incorrect spots need more trickery to overcome

There are some tricks that need to be applied to achieve the above rates / volumes..which I can not disclose as yet unfortunately..These tricks would probably also apply to the emulsion formats..but for the price of the kits, including surfactants, and ongoing maintenance..I am leaning towards progression on a more simplistic WI methodology (Requires Computer control / H20 sensor integration / staging and a few things extra to work well from what we have seen..) However even without Hydrogen as an additional fuel, H20 seems to definitely work, with reduced engine temps / turbo temps, negligible decreases in HP during the normal rev range (Does reduce higher up), and a fairly huge displacement possible in diesel...

Pity the standard WI kits on the market are simply put..RUBBISH...some are glorified irrigation supplies..a few are much better than that (EG cooling mist), but they are more geared from what I can see towards performance markets, and still fail to interact on a few parameters correctly, leaving the fuel economy crowd missing out severely on their possibilities.
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Old 07-05-2017, 07:58 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Emulsification is a distraction

Issac, I think you're putting the cart before the horse. Not with regards to the pusher- they work great! Fretting about saving the world with a DIY fuel emulsifier should be last priority behind getting your pusher up and running reliably, especially when you can arguably do more good with a biodiesel or SVO setup than emulsification.

Yes, the pushed vehicle setup will use more fuel on long trips than the original Rabbit did. That's beside the point IF the Rabbit requires significant cost to make acceptable for road trips (other than drivetrain repairs) and IF the annual Rabbit registration and insurance costs are significant enough, or if you'd simply prefer the cruising comfort of your EV to rattling down the highway in a smoke bunny.

My gasoline-fueled aircooled VW pusher only delivered 20 mpg during long-distance cruising (compared to the 28 mpg of an unmolested aircooled beetle), but if I didn't have need for a 6 passenger vehicle, it could've replaced our 21 mpg family van on road trips, and the annual fuel usage would be within 20 gallons of a Chevy Volt on the same mission profile. We average 21,500 driving miles per year including about 4000 miles outside of the Puget Sound DC Fast Charge region and average 48 electric miles per day, 10 miles beyond a VOLT's electric range.) Given the need to keep our van, I retired the pusher experiment and just take the van on long trips. My next pusher experiment is set to be an electric pusher that extends EV range with no electrical hacks of the OEM EV, and can also be used to hybridize our gas van.
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Old 07-05-2017, 10:29 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Start with a Type III subframe, and use a Toyota/Lexus drive train. You can make an offer on mine (I'll deliver) since I'm leaning more toward a Buick Lacrosse/Impala altermotor to make my Dasher a mild hybrid.

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Old 07-07-2017, 09:30 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Thx Freebeard- I already have the trailer built around a Type III subframe- perhaps it was you who steered me that direction in the first place! (And a second autostick Type III subframe waiting in the wings.)
Partially due to electronics incompetence and a desire to demonstrate what 'should have been' in the good ol daze, I'm still inclined to start with my Kaylor-Kit adaptor and WWII starter-generator on the VW transaxle, but have been intrigued by the Toyota/Lexus drive unit for quite a while, just haven't put any serious study into it...
I've made a solemn vow to self and spouse to not acquire any more interesting projects or even improve upon any existing functional equipment until all other round tuits are rounded. Or at least most of them. (Or the project better be exceptionally interesting!......) My current fleet has maxed out my parking and maintenance capabilities.
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Old 07-08-2017, 11:19 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Quote:
...trailer built around a Type III subframe...WWII starter-generator on the VW transaxle...
Pix? I'd like to see how you handled the trailer hitch.
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Old 07-15-2017, 07:40 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Alcohols help increasing the solubility for biodiesel and water, but I'm not sure how it would perform with regular Diesel fuel.

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