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Old 02-08-2017, 01:00 AM   #11 (permalink)
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[dangles red meat]

Quote:
YAY!!! Some replies!
Heh. Welcome. (I'm a little curious how you could post a picture at Permalink #4, and not be up to 5 posts currently)

My own obsession is the VW Beetle, and my reckoning is half from aero and half from drivetrain. Here is the drivetrain cRiPpLe_rOoStEr mentioned:



It wants 400volts, but for 50 mile range you could use lead acid batteries and a buck/boost inverter.

What I'm curious about is the use case. Our member slowmover is good on that (driver input costs gas!). One of the biggest changes you could make is wheels and tires. You might be able to swap out two sets for different scenarios.

Edit: I went back and read some more. The nuclear power and vortex generators can go into the Unicorn Corral. You can induce turbulence with sandpaper. The human-power racers have something I think they call zip-tape[?]

I fully support the aerocap that extends over the cab. I'd include a visor that extends over the top 1/4th of the windshield, big-rig style. You could integrate the tailgate from a Dodge Magnum. It's whole roofline is optimal, just graft the whole thing onto hinges.

Else, consider a material like Polymetal:



PREFINISHED! And it can be rolled, sheared and braked by hand, as these samples were. Stiff as 5/8" plywood at 1/10th the weight.


Last edited by freebeard; 02-08-2017 at 02:00 AM..
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Old 02-08-2017, 02:03 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freebeard View Post
[dangles red meat]



Heh. Welcome. (I'm a little curious how you could post a picture at Permalink #4, and not be up to 5 posts currently)

My own obsession is the VW Beetle, and my reckoning is half from aero and half from drivetrain. Here is the drivetrain cRiPpLe_rOoStEr mentioned:

It wants 400volts, but for 50 mile range you could use lead acid batteries and a buck/boost inverter.

What I'm curious about is the use case. Our member slowmover is good on that (driver input costs gas!). One of the biggest changes you could make is wheels and tires. You might be able to swap out two sets for different scenarios.
I run these tires at the sidewall pressure. 80 psi. And they say eco sumthin on the side. I havent googled em to see whats what.

I was googling toyota's hsd and diddnt get much farther than the system the prius uses. If i could bolt on a cheap used inline drive unit i would be all giggles.

I was doing some shopping for lipofe batteries. And from the research ive seen one can get about 2 miles per kwh with my aero qualities. I could get around 200 miles of range for $10,000 and a thousand lbs (would be awesome. But nope). And i havnt gotten too far on the math with individual 3v 100 amp/hr cells wired in series. I could use flooded batteries. But a: maintenence and b: weight vs size vs power capabilies. Im using 2 200 amp/hr deep cycles in the camper and 200 watts on the roof. It works fine but does get kinda low running the furnace over night. Someday ill switch that over to lipo when they get old.


Anyway the hybrid drive is most likely that last thing ill do. The sheer cost is the limiting factor.

Sometime within the week im going to replace the catylitic converters. When i got the truck the o2 sensors where bad. Since ive replaced them ive seen a few miles more. But the cats rattle at idle. And i want to swap out to a freer flowing muffler thats still decently quiet. Ive heard these trucks benefit greatly with exhaust work. Headers especially. I also want to get a tuner to reflash the computer.

Ive got a bundle of guages picked out on amazon and a tri pillar. Vacuum, wideband o2 and trans temp. I dont know how much the o2 guage will help being that its fuel injected. But would be nice to know.

Im also planning some better fuel injectors. I havnt pulled these out but i can only assume theyre single hole. I put quad hole injectors in my old jeep and saw a mile or so more. And much smoother running. Thats another bite to the wallet for new ones. I got junkyard injectors for the jeep and never really had a problem. Finding 6 was a pain though. 10 of em that flow right may be no better.
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Old 02-08-2017, 08:17 AM   #13 (permalink)
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The newer generation injectors would likely help.
You could always buy up used ones on ebay to get 10 total.
You could just gut the converters if you don't live in a smog prone area and don't have emissions testing. I have found aftermarket replacements can last for as little as a year or 2, before they start to rattle. It would free up more $ for other mods.
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Old 02-08-2017, 03:09 PM   #14 (permalink)
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The Highlander/Lexus part runs $400-$1000 used, $2500 new (in round numbers) on eBay; I paid $650. Major expenses in adapting to the axle shafts and all the other bits and pieces (inverters and chargers and contactors, oh my!)
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Old 02-09-2017, 12:04 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oil pan 4 View Post
The newer generation injectors would likely help.
You could always buy up used ones on ebay to get 10 total.
You could just gut the converters if you don't live in a smog prone area and don't have emissions testing. I have found aftermarket replacements can last for as little as a year or 2, before they start to rattle. It would free up more $ for other mods.
I found a whole bunch of injectors on ebay. Problem is theyre all 24-30 lb injectors. From what ive been able to get out of google, the stock is about 20lb. I dont necessarily want to max out what the computer can adjust in stock form. Ive had thoughts of upping the crompression to about 9.5:1, stock is 8.4:1. And thoughts of swapping a new cam into it. Only problem is i can only find cams with more lift and duration. So more upper end hp. Woukd help deal with larger injectors, Not what im looking for. It allready has roller lifters. And roller rockers are definitely on my list. Surely raising the compression alone can make a decent improvement.

The only other way i can think of to reduce internal losses is to balance everything to within a half gram of each other. I think that while the block deck height is being shaved ill balance the rods and pistons myself. Then crank by the machinist. As long as the ring ridge is acceptable i would just twist on some new rings and dingleball the cylinders. But, while its all apart, just bore it smooth and get some new lighter pistons and proper forged rods to make things more happy. I priced out to rebuild my old 4.0 inline 6 many times and with pretty much everything it came to around $1500 with machine work. But that was for more power. The valvetrain alone was $500 of that.


Anyway. I thought about gutting the cats but that seems counter productive to me. And i like that they muffle things down quite a bit. I put a mew one on my jeep 4 years ago and its still together.

So. Ive got a muffler picked out. Cherry bomb turbo 16835cb. I need to measure things out again to make sure i got the right size picked out. And a couple cats seem to be around $80 each at the cheapest. If im going to retain the smog pump i need to make sure its got the right bung hole in it for those air lines.

Things would be much easier if i removed that system all together. Should i just ditch the smog pump and get normal cat's?
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"20+ from a gas one ton!? INCONCEIVABLE!!!"

-Every other forum i tried to state my intents...

Total spent on mods. :$440($200 was oil. So take it or leave it)
Total returned from 10mpg baseline :$167
miles since i started ecomodding :3315 miles

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Old 02-09-2017, 12:06 AM   #16 (permalink)
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rdefayettes aluminum aeroshell a model for you. Simple, and practical.

Weight has more effect on gassers than on diesels. Cylinder pressure. Time for a cranking compression test. Cylinder leakage will hurt tremendously. We used to never worry over it so much with big blocks as displacement helped it to continue to do its job. On my last one I got it to 17-19/mpg at 55-60/mph (car) with one cylinder almost below spec.

But that car weighed 4,760-lbs all up. Your truck has a huge amount of weight to overcome just in rolling from a start.

That truck isn't needed to move a travel trailer, but with the welder (and I assume) quite a lot of gear and supplies, I can see the appeal.

However, if moved infrequently, that can be hired out to an RV transporter. And the rest better covered by a car or smaller pickup with a decent trailer.

AAA and Edmunds both have worksheets on total cost of ownership. Most of us pay highly for convenience. Without IRS deductible miles, it's overly expensive to buy what is essentially a full time work vehicle (generates its own income) and use it for personal transportation, especially commuting.

I really like the 488. Remember them well. A popular alternative to the Cummins of the era. More and better power (useful) in many cases.

So, start with records. All those receipts showing fuel purchases. Use a journal or Fuelly. One needs to know the annual cost per mile for fuel. Changes in fuel economy are percentage changes to the average annual mpg. MPG gains are more slippery than they appear.

Complete book service after engine condition analysis. Given the age new body and bed bushings. Steering needs to be like new, this is huge for 4WD pickups.
Tire pressure should be reasonable. Too high is a bad idea from
Standpoint of safety. Longevity isn't improved either.


The mantra is fewer miles via trip consolidation and planning. Accomplish the same things, but with far fewer cold starts. Then drive the remaining miles more efficiently.

Cut annual miles. Record a higher average mph (engine hours versus odometer miles). With some new habits at the wheel, note percentage gain for gallons consumed.

THEN will upgrades show any benefit. One must have separated the wheat from the chaff or expensive changes will show false benefits.

There's always a minimum as to usage. Minimum miles to have accomplished the same ends. Will proposed changes affect that low miles number enough to be of benefit, is the real question.

One must have records.

If one is still in the mind set that increasing tank range with no changes to driver skill and vehicle use, then it's an expensive road made more expensive. Not less.

The money is in use. Type and frequency. What is the minimum?
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Old 02-09-2017, 01:08 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slowmover View Post
rdefayettes aluminum aeroshell a model for you. Simple, and practical.

Weight has more effect on gassers than on diesels. Cylinder pressure. Time for a cranking compression test. Cylinder leakage will hurt tremendously. We used to never worry over it so much with big blocks as displacement helped it to continue to do its job. On my last one I got it to 17-19/mpg at 55-60/mph (car) with one cylinder almost below spec.

But that car weighed 4,760-lbs all up. Your truck has a huge amount of weight to overcome just in rolling from a start.

That truck isn't needed to move a travel trailer, but with the welder (and I assume) quite a lot of gear and supplies, I can see the appeal.

However, if moved infrequently, that can be hired out to an RV transporter. And the rest better covered by a car or smaller pickup with a decent trailer.

AAA and Edmunds both have worksheets on total cost of ownership. Most of us pay highly for convenience. Without IRS deductible miles, it's overly expensive to buy what is essentially a full time work vehicle (generates its own income) and use it for personal transportation, especially commuting.

I really like the 488. Remember them well. A popular alternative to the Cummins of the era. More and better power (useful) in many cases.

So, start with records. All those receipts showing fuel purchases. Use a journal or Fuelly. One needs to know the annual cost per mile for fuel. Changes in fuel economy are percentage changes to the average annual mpg. MPG gains are more slippery than they appear.

Complete book service after engine condition analysis. Given the age new body and bed bushings. Steering needs to be like new, this is huge for 4WD pickups.
Tire pressure should be reasonable. Too high is a bad idea from
Standpoint of safety. Longevity isn't improved either.


The mantra is fewer miles via trip consolidation and planning. Accomplish the same things, but with far fewer cold starts. Then drive the remaining miles more efficiently.

Cut annual miles. Record a higher average mph (engine hours versus odometer miles). With some new habits at the wheel, note percentage gain for gallons consumed.

THEN will upgrades show any benefit. One must have separated the wheat from the chaff or expensive changes will show false benefits.

There's always a minimum as to usage. Minimum miles to have accomplished the same ends. Will proposed changes affect that low miles number enough to be of benefit, is the real question.

One must have records.

If one is still in the mind set that increasing tank range with no changes to driver skill and vehicle use, then it's an expensive road made more expensive. Not less.

The money is in use. Type and frequency. What is the minimum?
My thought is why pull a trailer to work everyday (let alone usual campground parking.) and still get around 13 mpg with something suitable to tow all that gear. I bonked my jeeps average from 16 to 22 highway by footwork alone. But having the 4.0 and 4000lbs loaded i woukd accel at half throttle or so and watch the inst guage like a hawk to keep it above a set amount.

Anyway. I understand how to drive light footed up hills. The problem is whenever you open the taps on the v10 it sucks like a cow.

And yes im going to keep a log of fuel spent vs money used for upgrades. Of course you want everything to pay itself off as soon as possible. And i plan to drive this truck as long as i can. Its the nicest vehicle ive had yet. Would i rather a nice sedan hybrid? Yeah. But with the skills i have and bassackwards thinking i normally do the truck is the way to go. Most of my jobs im working 60+ hrs a week out in the field. But i got this inside gig makin decent cash. And it aint going to last long.

I just got the truck maybe 6 months ago. After being an apprentice for a few years. And the welding rig was cheap off some old guy who was retireing.

And plus i like the mechanical challenge. As ive gotten used to the truck ive squeezed a mile more out of it. But the gas pedal cant do anything to cut down on aero and mechanical drag.

I said it before, if i could average 20+ with non hybrid modifications i would be happy. The ev idea is exactly that. An idea. I would need to see what ive done so far to pay it self off before i invest in that.

Weight is a massive issue with any vehicle. Apart from stripping the body panels off and swapping with fiberglass, theres not too much i can do. I allready keep only the necessary tools for the job with me. And as i sit right now. The truck is unloaded.

Anyway im not trying to start any arguments. Just sharing my adventures and trying to get some input. The truck aint going anywhere. And if im not trying to get decent economy out of it someone else would still be getting less than 10 everyday in it.
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-Every other forum i tried to state my intents...

Total spent on mods. :$440($200 was oil. So take it or leave it)
Total returned from 10mpg baseline :$167
miles since i started ecomodding :3315 miles

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Old 02-09-2017, 03:36 AM   #18 (permalink)
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No idea why you didn't just Edit->Delete the 2nd post???

I like slowmover's posts but this:
Quote:
The money is in use. Type and frequency. What is the minimum?
...is pretty cryptic. I think it may be what I called 'use case'.

Still wanting to see the layout, so I can suggest gull-wing doors over the tools in the front of the bed.

Last edited by freebeard; 02-09-2017 at 02:11 PM..
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Old 02-09-2017, 03:57 AM   #19 (permalink)
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I want to get 100 mpg with my car but saying so isn't doin' it.

Good luck.
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Old 02-09-2017, 06:14 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Can the welder be oriented side to side ,or is it too big? If it is to big use this template to re form your shape.template C you may endup with more a fish tail than a whale tail. Its fine to go past the tailgate and continue to reduce your wake. My V 2 will probably go 12-18" past, insted of my 8". Just account for opening the tailgate without having to pop the top and driveway angles when hooked up and loaded down for a move.

--- moderators
Can some one get the overhead view template C put in the tools link with the over lay feature of the side view (said looking towards the sky)
----

Its hard to make out with the trees but its 1/2"x.065"round with 1"x065" square edge. This is covered with 12mil industrial heat shrink wrap .. you could easily add an access door for the welder controls and cables. If you want a stronger more durable skin then look at Oratex 600 /6000. The 6000 is 1/2 oz./square foot. So named by the wight of aircraft certification in kilograms . V1.0 was 21lbs for the opening part ( White Part in sig) V1.2 is 35lbs (added ~20'of 1/2"x065 round and 1/2" foam insulation with mylar)
91 Dodge airocap
---
You stated that the welder is taller than normal to clear the gooseneck ball. Do you tow GN?
---
At first the wideband O2will teachyou when the computer is programed to do things like enrichment. You will see at what (") of vac.it goes rich. It may also go off how fast the needle moves. Your best mpg will b the result of maintaining the highest average vac. and the highest possible vac to maintain speed . The 2nd part is adjusting the throttle ever so slightly to account for even the smallest changes in grade.
----
OP questioned wether or not a 1ton was nessasary.
It sounds like a 1ton may be almost light duity for the lashings you give it . 3000lbs in the bed for welding gear on bord. And you leave home what you can! So this means that its probably closer to 4000lbs on bord +travel trailer. You have not stated any info on theTT just gussing from the TT in the pic . AC normally centered on TT so about 22' at 250/foot =5500lbs + gear. At 10% tongue weight thats at least 4550lbs load+ truck on thr rear axel without weight distribution system. The full of fule rear axle weight would have to be under 2500lbs for single wheel stock 245/75R16 are 3200ish lbs each.
Never guess with safety always scale the rig . Find out how much things change with and without trailer you could find that 550lbs tongue is closer ot 900lbs on the tires with weight transfer off the front.
---
Free spin hub kit. You have a center disconnect stock but everything is still spinning and that will burn fule. Just make shure to put it in 4x4 atleast one a month to keep the berings rotated and lubed.
---
Synthetic everything

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