E10 Woes

[trikkonceptz]

Well in Florida nearly all pumps now a days have at least a 10% Ethanol blend in them. Yes its better for the enviroment, but it sucks for FE, as my car is struggling to reach 44mpg again.

Anyhow, I keep noticing that the gas station I go to often has slow pumps, so one day I walked in to ask why. The gas attendant told me it was because the fuel filters are clogged. He claims that the e-10 blend clogs the filters faster than regular gas and the owner does not want to pay for the additional maintenance.

So my question is; If this is happening at gas stations, what is E-10 doing to our cars? I know by volume we are consuming much less fuel, but in the time I have seen e-10 my mileage is begining to slide.

I am sure my car is due for a tune anyhow, but will this fuel shorten the lifespan of fuel filters?

[Big Dave]

Back in the 70s, the product now called E10 was called gasohol. People came to loathe the stuff.

Your MPG is down because gasohol has a lower heating value than straight gasoline. Heat is what turns the wheels, Lower heating value means you need more fuel to go the same distance.

The alcohol in gasohol is hygroscopic. It readily combines with water (ask your bartender) and when it does it comes out of solution in the gasoline. It is so hygroscopic it will suck water vapor out of the air. When some of the vodka (water/denatured alcohol mix) hits the filter it clogs it.

Apparently, we are doomed to make the same blunders (in this case gasohol) every thirty years or so.

[dremd]

The way I understand it; the reason Ethanol plugs Fuel filters is much like the reason that BioDiesel Clogs fuel filters; It's a great cleaner.


I never can get it; boaters complain the most about ethanol in fuel due to it absorbing water; but when they have water in their fuel they add Methanol . . . .


True less BTU's/ gallon . . .

[Red]

But on most modern gasoline engines, the fuel filter is in tank and its the first thing that your fuel sees. Fuel goes through the filter than the pump, lines, out the injectors. If its a great cleaner how does it then clog the filter? Gas tanks are made out of plastic so its not the tank degrading. Sure gasoline has junk in it, but not that much far as I know

[dremd]

My experience with modern(ish) fuel systems is as follows


1) Tank yes crap accumulates here, not much, but some. Mostly Varnish, and oils which alcohol is good at cleaning out . . .
2) Pump Inlet screen I've never seen one plugged, I'm sure it happens . . . .
3) Fuel pump
4) Hose
5) Filter (mostly rearmount, or under the vehicle)
6) Tube to front
7) Fuel rail
8) Injectors tapped off fuel rail
***** Some cars such as new neons end here they use pwm controllers on the fuel pump to eliminate the FPR + Return hose**********
9) Fuel pressure Regulator
10) Return line to pump.

And the fuel keeps flowing. . . . Rund and Round like a record

Are you implying that absorbed water in the ethanol mucks up paper filters?

[RH77]

"Winter Gas" used to be 10% Ethanol, but I see the same sticker on pumps in the Summer now. I assume they won't be dumping-in any more this winter I can't keep track anymore...

Speaking of fuel filters, what's the replacement interval these days? I'm at ~80K since the last change...

RH77

[Frank Lee]

Yes I've heard all the horror stories but my experience with running not only E10 but E85 in various NON flex-fuel Fords is:

at concentrations of up to 50% ethanol, economy is basically unaffected

all these years I've never changed a single fuel filter or injector, or any other component for that matter

only issues I came across were hard starting in sub-zero weather when ethanol blend was over 50%, and poor WOT performance with 100% E85 (don't care though because I almost never go WOT).

[Red]

Originally Posted by RH77

"Winter Gas" used to be 10% Ethanol, but I see the same sticker on pumps in the Summer now. I assume they won't be dumping-in any more this winter I can't keep track anymore...

Speaking of fuel filters, what's the replacement interval these days? I'm at ~80K since the last change...

RH77

Both the Insight and the Jeep claim life time. I'd say 100k for no other reason than a peace of mind

[Funny]

Hats off to BigDave, he hit the nail right on the head. Ethanol in gas causes more problems than it's worth. It says in many owner's manuals of small engine power tools that you should avoid gas with ethanol in it, as it causes the tool to be under-powered and has a tendency to stall. I just want to buy straight gasoline, but in the Socialist State of Massachusetts we have no choice, everything is E10 or greater. Just give me a choice, PLEASE!

And as an aside, Methanol is MORE hydroscopic than Ethanol and also mixes with ethanol. That is why it is used in 'dry-gas', because it goes out and finds more water and the crappy ethanol (it's not much better itself) and it allows the water to pass through the fuel filter (usually a synthetic filter with silicone in it to stop water from going into the pump, because water is bad for them), and eventually pass through the exhaust. Alcohol in gas is not good for fuel economy, it reduces the overall BTU value of the Gas, so you get less power from the same amount. BigDave said all I wanted to say, to you Bigdave.

[Will]

Has anyone done any real testing on the differences they have had with E10 vs. straight gas?

You know, I have been seeing things on Discovery for years about our shrinking farm land and our expanding population. It seems very shortsighted to me to start placing the demands of the fuel supply onto the food supply.

It does not seem to be the answer to me. People can get 25mpg, burn E85 and feel good about it. They can feel that they are "doing their part". I have to call BS!

Honda had an answer to this with the Insight. Suzuki had a lesser answer with the Swift/Metro. Toyota has small answer with the Prius.

GM had THE answer with the EV1! Of course the EV1 only worked for 90% of people. Well, boo-hoo.

We need to change WHAT we drive as much as HOW we drive. Trucks and SUVs are work vehicles, not commuter cars.