Electric Motor Mounted Like Supercharger -- Electric assisted engine

[Ecky]

The supercharger idea is actually very similar in concept to how Honda's original IMA system worked, so it's not a total bust. However, most of the gains Honda got were from downsizing the engine, not from adding more power via electricity - that was only to make the smaller engines more usable.

[Panther140]

Originally Posted by Ecky

The supercharger idea is actually very similar in concept to how Honda's original IMA system worked, so it's not a total bust. However, most of the gains Honda got were from downsizing the engine, not from adding more power via electricity - that was only to make the smaller engines more usable.

I'm effectively downsizing the engine. Thats the point. The truck will stay in V4 80% of the time, due to the load reduction that the electric motor would grant the engine.

[Stubby79]

I'm hoping to find time to do this. I have most of what I need to do it...

Personally, I would prefer the motor "between" the engine and the transmission, so it can run with the engine completely shut off when the load is light enough. And able to do regen, even with the engine disengaged.

[Ecky]

Originally Posted by Stubby79

I'm hoping to find time to do this. I have most of what I need to do it...

Personally, I would prefer the motor "between" the engine and the transmission, so it can run with the engine completely shut off when the load is light enough. And able to do regen, even with the engine disengaged.

There's a thread on Insight Central about this very thing. It went dozens of pages before the minds there considered it too difficult. You'd likely need a second clutch and to move either engine or transmission to make room. The belt-drive will work well enough though, even if it's not ideal - this is (almost) how all of Honda's hybrids work, with the exception of the Accord, and Honda was all able to extract in excess of 50mpg (60+ in the hands of a hypermiler) from the Civic platform, and 70+ from the G1 Insight.

[Stubby79]

Originally Posted by Ecky

There's a thread on Insight Central about this very thing. It went dozens of pages before the minds there considered it too difficult. You'd likely need a second clutch and to move either engine or transmission to make room. The belt-drive will work well enough though, even if it's not ideal - this is (almost) how all of Honda's hybrids work, with the exception of the Accord, and Honda was all able to extract in excess of 50mpg (60+ in the hands of a hypermiler) from the Civic platform, and 70+ from the G1 Insight.

I've got it figured out...at least for a smaller engine. The one-way clutches that aren't hard to hard to get can't handle a whole lot of torque, though. I'd be ok with a 1-litre engine, but nothing much bigger.

Option B is an electric clutch - like aPTO clutch from a ride-on mower - but they too are limited on how much torque they can handle. Unless you want to spend $$$

[Panther140]

I'm looking at other options, now. What I'm thinking is to put 4x4 style front hubs on my truck. The 4x4 hubs will allow me to transfer torque to and from the front wheels with a splined shaft. Just like a 4x4 truck would.
I could apply torque to the front wheels with CV axles and stubs that are driving/being driven by a motor.

That would be better for regenerative braking. Thats why i like this idea better than the e-charger mild hybrid. Its all about regenerative braking and being able to use that energy to reduce load on the engine (keeping it in V4 mode with energy that would've otherwise been wasted)

[elhigh]

It's fun to think about but you would still spend your time and money much more effectively on less esoteric approaches: driving style/habits, aerodynamic drag reduction, mechanical drag reduction, engine tuning. These solutions can yield the kind of results you're seeking, and are proven effective. The system you want to install will be very expensive and you're already talking about completely redesigning the drivetrain to accommodate it. There are better gains to be had for less cost and effort, why not pursue those first?

[elhigh]

Originally Posted by Stubby79

Option B is an electric clutch - like aPTO clutch from a ride-on mower - but they too are limited on how much torque they can handle. Unless you want to spend $$$

What is the capacity on a really big air conditioner clutch? I ask because I just got done replacing the clutch on my Civic's AC and when it kicks in/out I feel it in the engine loading. It's not big but it's not nothing either, and it's a small AC system. I think a larger one could probably handle 15-20 HP.

[Stubby79]

Originally Posted by elhigh

What is the capacity on a really big air conditioner clutch? I ask because I just got done replacing the clutch on my Civic's AC and when it kicks in/out I feel it in the engine loading. It's not big but it's not nothing either, and it's a small AC system. I think a larger one could probably handle 15-20 HP.

Not sure. The mower PTO's are rated around 75 ft-lbs, so I'd guess about half that, judging from the size of AC clutches. Same type of clutch though.

One issue with that type of clutch, or so I presume, is that it's all-or-nothing. There's no "gently letting it out" to get spinning things up to the same speed. With a belt that can possibly slip, like it's designed with originally, it's probably not a huge deal, but with something like directly spinning up an engine it would be quite harsh. Might damage the clutch in short order, and would probably cause an unpleasant jolt to pass to be felt through the whole car.

It might work if done right, though.

I like the idea of the one-way clutch (think bicycle freewheel)...the engine is free to spin as much or as little as it likes until it catches up to the same speed as the motor/transmission, at which point it stops accelerating and starts pushing. Unless you had it floored, it would be pretty seamless, and completely seamless when it disengages. It would be wonderful for pulse and glide.

[Panther140]

Originally Posted by elhigh

It's fun to think about but you would still spend your time and money much more effectively on less esoteric approaches: driving style/habits, aerodynamic drag reduction, mechanical drag reduction, engine tuning. These solutions can yield the kind of results you're seeking, and are proven effective. The system you want to install will be very expensive and you're already talking about completely redesigning the drivetrain to accommodate it. There are better gains to be had for less cost and effort, why not pursue those first?

I'm not redesigning the drivetrain. A pair of 4x4 front hubs is $100. Pair of axles is $100. 20hp motors can be found for around $200-300. I still have to figure out what I'd do for batteries.