Go Back   EcoModder Forum > EcoModding > EcoModding Central
Register Now
 Register Now
 

Reply  Post New Thread
 
Submit Tools LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 06-25-2013, 05:47 PM   #11 (permalink)
V8 guy
 
oil pan 4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: NewMexico (USA)
Posts: 4,793

Sub - '84 Chevy Diesel Suburban C10
SUV
90 day: 19.5 mpg (US)

camaro - '85 Chevy Camaro Z28

Riot - '03 Kia Rio POS
Team Hyundai
90 day: 30.21 mpg (US)

Bug - '01 VW Beetle GLSturbo
90 day: 26.43 mpg (US)

Sub2500 - '86 GMC Suburban C2500
90 day: 11.95 mpg (US)
Thanks: 102
Thanked 1,125 Times in 824 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Mechanic View Post
You need the additional power very rarely as a percentage of total operational time.
With a turbodiesel out on the highway will a few pounds of boost all the time, that is at least several horsepower.

__________________
1984 chevy suburban, custom made 6.5L diesel turbocharged with a Garrett T76 and Holset HE351VE, 22:1 compression 13psi of intercooled boost.
1989 firebird mostly stock. Aside from the 6-speed manual trans, corvette gen 5 front brakes, 1LE drive shaft, 4th Gen disc brake fbody rear end.
  Reply With Quote
Alt Today
Popular topics

Other popular topics in this forum...

   
Old 06-25-2013, 06:42 PM   #12 (permalink)
Ecomuggler
 
Xist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Mesa, AZ
Posts: 5,026

Chorizo - '00 Honda Civic HX, baby! :D
90 day: 44.23 mpg (US)

Mid-Life Crisis Fighter - '99 Honda Accord LX
90 day: 36.36 mpg (US)
Thanks: 3,023
Thanked 839 Times in 629 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Mechanic View Post
Green Car Congress: Valeo acquires electric supercharger business from Controlled Power

I wouldn't consider it a unicorn topic considering the potential. I understand few here would agree with that opinion. You need the additional power very rarely as a percentage of total operational time.

regards
Mech
Most "electric superchargers" are useless bilge pumps and computer fans. I had thought that the e-Ram would do [B]something[B], but apparently the thing that is done is negligible. I read on here about the Thomas Knight ones, which have as much shared "DNA" as mermaids and manatees.

There are legitimate and proven implementations, but they seem like a tiny fraction, lost in the junk heap of pretenders.

However, I have a question. That article linked to a previous one, introducing the technology:

Quote:
Compared with a 1.6-liter naturally aspirated engine, the downsized engine with electric supercharger reduces the 70-100 km/h (44-63 mph) top gear acceleration time from 18 to 11 seconds.
Green Car Congress: CPT VTES Electric Supercharger Selected for Two Projects

These cars take 11-18 seconds to accelerate from 44 MPH to 63?
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2013, 06:58 PM   #13 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
P-hack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: USA
Posts: 1,408

awesomer - '04 Toyota prius
Thanks: 102
Thanked 249 Times in 201 Posts
In top gear only it seems. I'm sure one could downshift and get better times, but it is a controlled measurement of lower rpm performance perhaps.

It seems that a proper one could be used to downsize an engine for more optimal hiway mileage while still getting ok performance. If it doesn't look like a motor bolted to half a turbo then it is probably junk.

I expect that one could do something like part turbo, part electric supercharger, part exhaust driven alternator too.
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2013, 07:26 PM   #14 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
kach22i's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Ann Arbor, Michigan
Posts: 2,507
Thanks: 3
Thanked 1,530 Times in 1,080 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by DIMS View Post
A fluff piece mock article but an entertaining read. I really don't know enough about the topic to sit in judgement, but from what I've read that one stands above the rest.

BMW Patent on Elec-Supercharger
BMW Patents Its Electric Turbocharger Technology. More Power, Less Lag. - BMW M3 and BMW M4 Forum
__________________
George
Architect, Artist and Designer of Objects

1977 Porsche 911s Targa
1998 Chevy S-10 Pick-Up truck
1989 Scat II HP Hovercraft

Chin Spoiler:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/off-t...effective.html

Rear Spoiler Pick Up Truck
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/off-t...xperiment.html

Roof Wing
http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...1-a-19525.html
  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to kach22i For This Useful Post:
P-hack (06-25-2013)
Old 06-28-2013, 12:37 AM   #15 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
freebeard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: northwest of normal
Posts: 8,375
Thanks: 1,801
Thanked 2,779 Times in 2,170 Posts
The BMW patent shows something that should work, but it is intended as a [third?] turbo to supplement others. So it isn't a total solution.

The problem comes in when you are essentially driving the turbo with the alternator. Losses accumulate. What might be feasible would be to use a conventional turbo to drive a generator/alternator to recharge the battery.
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-23-2017, 02:42 PM   #16 (permalink)
It's all about Diesel
 
cRiPpLe_rOoStEr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Porto Alegre, Rio Grande do Sul, Brazil
Posts: 5,338
Thanks: 0
Thanked 505 Times in 451 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by freebeard View Post
What might be feasible would be to use a conventional turbo to drive a generator/alternator to recharge the battery.
That's roughly similar to how modern jet engines fitted to airliners get their generators driven.
  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to cRiPpLe_rOoStEr For This Useful Post:
Fingie (06-25-2017)
Old 06-29-2017, 07:36 AM   #17 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: United States
Posts: 1,234

spyder2 - '00 Toyota MR2 Spyder
Thanks: 73
Thanked 200 Times in 148 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by freebeard View Post
The BMW patent shows something that should work, but it is intended as a [third?] turbo to supplement others. So it isn't a total solution.

The problem comes in when you are essentially driving the turbo with the alternator. Losses accumulate. What might be feasible would be to use a conventional turbo to drive a generator/alternator to recharge the battery.
That's why you have the turbine and compressor and motor all on the same shaft. The motor accelerates the turbo so there's no lag, and when the turbine is spinning at high speed it is more efficient and can be entirely exhaust powered.

Instead of using a wastegate on a smaller turbine to build boost at low rpm, you use a big turbine and slow it down to optimal speed using the motor as a generator. At very low speed, the turbine might need help from the electric motor, but that's not a big deal as the compressor power requirements are also lower. At high speed is when the power requirement is high and you want to tap into the exhaust to avoid the need for massive electrical power draw.

It's simple and seemingly compromised but actually works pretty well.
  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to serialk11r For This Useful Post:
freebeard (06-29-2017)
Old 07-15-2017, 08:30 PM   #18 (permalink)
It's all about Diesel
 
cRiPpLe_rOoStEr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Porto Alegre, Rio Grande do Sul, Brazil
Posts: 5,338
Thanks: 0
Thanked 505 Times in 451 Posts
Considering that Volvo already uses an air-assisted system called PowerPulse to make the turbocharging setup spool faster on its Diesel cars, relying on an electric compressor and a storage tank to supply air to the turbine during starts or when faster acceleration is required, and that its working principle quite resembles the way an APU fitted to an airliner supplies air to start the engine #1, eventually an all-electric starter-generator to be connected to a turbocharger doesn't sound too unlikely at all.
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-16-2017, 07:03 AM   #19 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
sendler's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Syracuse, NY USA
Posts: 1,856

Honda CBR250R FI Single - '11 Honda CBR250R
90 day: 106.46 mpg (US)

Ninja 250R SE Green - '09 Kawasaki Ninja 250R SE
90 day: 65.9 mpg (US)

2001 Honda Insight stick - '01 Honda Insight manual
90 day: 60.68 mpg (US)

2009 Honda Fit auto - '09 Honda Fit Auto
90 day: 42.77 mpg (US)

Kawi Ninja650 - '07 Kawasaki Ninja650
90 day: 54.85 mpg (US)

PCX153 - '13 Honda PCX150
90 day: 103.38 mpg (US)

2015 Yamaha R3 - '15 Yamaha R3
90 day: 81.84 mpg (US)
Thanks: 246
Thanked 441 Times in 334 Posts
We had another thread on this.
.
Turbo as a charger?
.
F1 cars are hybrids and it has become a fuel economy competition. They use a motor/ generator on the crank and another on the turbo that can alternately harvest energy from the exhaust and act as the variation to control boost pressure. Or provide supercharging boost until the exhaust flow comes back up during first acceleration.
.
https://youtu.be/HDtMehBCpl4
.
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-2017, 12:35 AM   #20 (permalink)
It's all about Diesel
 
cRiPpLe_rOoStEr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Porto Alegre, Rio Grande do Sul, Brazil
Posts: 5,338
Thanks: 0
Thanked 505 Times in 451 Posts
Since many technologies such as VVT were developed on Formula 1 before they reached the mainstream cars, it sounds quite promising.

  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to cRiPpLe_rOoStEr For This Useful Post:
Jez77 (07-17-2017)
Reply  Post New Thread


Thread Tools




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.5.2
All content copyright EcoModder.com