Electric Vehicle Information - Start Here
There is currently great interest in electric vehicles. Start here to learn what it's all about, and how to build one yourself!
General EV Information: Thrifty EV Conversions: ForkenSwift Electro-Metro VW Bug The "Cheap Electric Cars" Blog Series Part 1 Part 2 Part 3 Part 4 Part 5 EV Cycle Conversions: Ben's Kawasaki Voltzilla/Forkencycle XB-600 Scooter Other pages and forums: EV Photo Album: Our Electric Cars on the Web DIY Electric Car Forums - Electric Vehicle Build and Conversion Community Controller Info: Alltrax Document Depot Curtis Controller Sheets Conversion Manuals: EL-Ninja Motorcycle Conversion Convert It BUILD YOUR OWN ELECTRIC CAR - CHEAP (Instructional DVD) Also, yes, electrics can go fast. You don't need to start anymore threads about either the Killacycle or the White Zombie, as we have heard of them already! Please add other links and information you think would be useful for "first-timers" to learn more about electric vehicles. I will add and organize it to the begining here, so we can "sticky" it as a resource. :cool: |
Hi,
Here's a homebuilt EV that I just came across: Jason Bloomberg's 1993 Eagle Summit Wagon The builder wrote this on the Talk of the Nation comments on the second part of the show today, which is on EV's: Quote:
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I play with this site sometimes when I'm feeling the itch to convert a car to electric.
EV Calculator I like this one too for battery comparisons. Battery percent of discharge comparison |
EV net efficiency flow chart
Yesterday,there was a discussion about the "actual" efficiency of a plug-in EV,from"wheeling" the power onto the grid,to the power delivered to the road surface from the traction drive in the car itself.I went into my records and found the following.The data is from GM Research Labs and Electric Power Research Institute.The numbers aren't current but may give some insight.
(1) Electric utility generation plants are given efficiencies from 34-50%,with a combined-cycle unit scoring the highest. (2) Power transmission losses delivering the power over the grid to the household give an efficiency of 93-94%. (3) Battery chargers are given a 90% efficiency. (4) Storage batteries on board the car are given 80% efficiency ( this has nothing to do with it's power density). (5) Controllers are given efficiencies as high as 98% ( Alan Cocconi's AC Propulsion using MOSFET and IGFET power transistors){his CRX loses 2kW in heat loss during full acceleration}. (6) Electric motors are given a range of efficiency,from 75% for a conventional DC device,to 92% for a GM MagnaQuench,and 96% for Unique Mobility in Colorado. (7) If the EV uses any type of powertrain from the motor to the drive wheel,it might be conservatively estimated at 95% efficiency. Considering the chain of events to power down the road in my home-built Ghia EV,if I use coal-fired electricity from a conventional power plant,I might expect an overall thermal efficiency on the order of 15.4%,compared to the chemical energy of the coal.With the combined-cycle plant,overall efficiency would be 30.2%. For a comparison,an IC-powered car,operating at constant speed at max BSFC can achieve 40% efficiency.This is why the Chevy VOLT is configured the way it is.Alternate,renewable forms of power wheeled onto the grid obviously get around the fossil-fuel CO2 challenge,however its important to realize how much energy is lost moving it around and from transforming it from one form to another. I like Ed Begley Jr's rooftop PV array-charged EV. This is along the lines of what Hunter and Amory Lovins were advocating a couple decades ago. |
Since Aero posted the EV chain I'll do the fossil
Out of a 43 gallon drum 19 gallons become gasoline drum contains 6.1x10^9j and 6-7 gallons form diesel so 26x 1.3x10^8j/(61x10^8+energy consumed in coal to refine(29.8x10^8j))=37.5% transmission cost of 7%=34.9% ICE efficiency typically ranges around 30% but we'll say its the max on any gasoline engine system(40% efficient) =14.0% Transmission cost 10%=12.6% very generous efficiency of 12.6% for the total ICE system |
plus the electricity used to crack the crude as you noted.
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fossil
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is anyone right?
Good thread. Good arguments. Statistics can be skewed any way you want.
Which is cheaper? No one really knows, now do they? aereohead - i suppose there are no security costs for the magically produced electricity. Let's not forget that some US power plants run off oil. The nuke plants might also have a security cost? The natural gas? The coal industry? Naa, that's just free and has nobody looking over it. The EV people should keep up the good work. Just remember that when you pound that green drum about what a good citizen you are, you have only moved your carbon footprint to somebody else's back yard. Guess that means you don't give a flyin f about your fellow human or the world in general. There seems to be a lot of the NIMBY syndrome going on world wide. "I need power for my (insert here whatever, in you cases, cars) but no more generation plants or transmission lines. At least not near ME. I singled you out because you chose to bring up Quote:
Focus on your objective, developing electric vehicles, and stop arguing about who is "better" All vehicles use too much energy and we need to address that. We are way too dependant on foriegn sources of energy and need to address that. Just stop always having to be right or wrong! |
Commuting in electric cars, regenerative braking, and ultracapacitors
Here's an excellent video to watch, all about EV's.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tCArK17Hu1M Quote:
What the professor (in the video) is saying is that using a supercapacitor in conjunction with the battery, you make huge gains in getting more regenerative braking, and you unload the batteries in city driving in particular. The batteries "see" as much as a 40% decrease in load. Directly related to this is something called "split-pi" which lets you use the supercaps with batteries that run at a higher voltage. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Split-pi Apparently, high voltage capacitors are very expensive, and unless you use low voltage batteries and drive motors (and the associated heavy cabling), the cost becomes prohibitive. So, if you can raise the voltage using the split-pi power converter -- which is 2-way, then you can use higher voltage batteries and motor, and use smaller gauge cabling, too. Here's a video demonstration of the split-pi -- it is software controlled, and can double the DC voltage in one direction, and in the other direction, it can cut it by up to half. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tqbXPkpsN5A |
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I'm in town and don't have all my materials with me.As usual. From my memory,I recall an estimate to cover escort costs,Desert Shield,etc.,to get Middle East crude to the U.S.,at around $5.00/gallon at the pump. Another estimate was over $25/barrel. I think all production infrastructure incurs security costs.I'm also given to understand that certain industries receive extremely lucrative taxpayer-funded subsidies which are never reflected on a ledger sheet or mentioned at a stockholder meeting. Personaly,I have no qualms about doing whatever it will take to get our troops back home without the body-bag. If the United States needs to run a pipeline near me ( they just did two 36-inch Natural Gas lines within a quarter mile ) ,or run an electric grid to connect Wind Turbines,fine by me.It would be zero sacrifice on my part. I've worked at nuclear facilities and weapons plants.You don't just walk in there.Shipments are 'supervised'. Power stations are 'gated'. So far,My EV experience is limited to home solar-PV-charged gell-cell Pb technology.Not much more than educational 'toys.' I haven't used grid power yet.I lived off the grid for 10-years. If I can mimic the California couple I met at the 1993 Solar races in Phoenix,with a home-charged PV-EV for local commuting I'll be satisfied to some extent.The donar car is a '70 Ghia,chopped-top,with bubble canopy,and some aero.Just low-tech for immediate future. Perhaps those who will charge their EV,off-peak,with grid power will remember where that power originates and what and who it takes to make that happen.They're not lost on me. I have no control over what others have, or will do.They're the boss of that. If I have in anyway,dis-respected the unsung many,who make everything happen for my convenience,then I hope they will accept my apology. I've attempted to walk the walk, dance the dance, and give something back since 1973.I only can hope I'm on a proper path. |
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