Elegant Forced Auto Stop (Insight)

[Natalya]

@Brucepick:
Ecky's diagram, a few posts above, shows the VSS is split, sending a separate signal to the speedo and to the ECM. I wired the switch after the split on the ECM side, so the speedo should work fine. My next task is to get a different resistor on the timer to make it pulse more slowly (target is 2hz) and to power it with a 5v source from the car. There's two pins on the ECM connector I want to look at.

[3-Wheeler]

Originally Posted by Ecky

It's not necessary to use 3 relays, as it's a shared ground.

True.

And Mike Dabrowski at IC used to make a FAS board, and I bought one about five years ago, and have in my Insight. Use it all the time, even without an active IMA.

Mikes board does have three relays, that cut the positive side of the fuel injectors and no weird dashlights while activating the FAS board. Just have to activate it long enough for the ICE to stop running.

Jim.

[Xist]

When you make this work, will you beautify it for the sake of engineers and electricians? Can you wire this to a Doax shifter?

[Natalya]

Okay ECM Connector C pin 28 labeled VCC2 is a +5v source. This lets me not use the voltage converter thing.

[Natalya]

Okay, some updates.
1: As you can see I got rid of the 12v to 5v converter because I located a 5v source at the ECM as mentioned above; pin #28 on the same connector the VSS wire uses.

2: Turns out it was pulsing too fast. I fixed this by throwing in an extra resistor. So now, in series between pins 6 and 7 there are a 10K Ohm resistor and a 47K Ohm resistor, which adds to 57k Ohms. (Previously there was just the 10K Ohm resistor.) I verified functionality by testing with an LED in series from the output to ground, so I knew that everything was working and that it would send the pulses to the ECM.

Okay, so on to testing. I had confusing results. In short, I don't know the correct inputs to make to get to autostop. Normally, when I drive, if I have my clutch switch off (driving the car in the normal fashion) and I hit the brakes, hold the brake down, throw it into neutral, then keep decelerating until I drop below about 35 km/h the car will autostop.

With this switch, I got autostop a couple times above 35km/h, but it wasn't consistent. I suspect that maybe the pulses I'm sending to the ECM are slightly too slow and maybe I need to remove the 10k resistor and just have the 47k resistor.

Also at some point I need to design a more ergonomic setup, right now it's still that thumb switch thing.

[Natalya]

Removed the 10KOhm resistor from the series, for a slightly faster pulse. This did not work. It autostopped like 1 time and that was in a stop-and-go situation where I think the car acts a little differently with the autostop function.

Maybe the pulses were still too fast then?

Or maybe there's some other problem with the signal? I have a multimeter, maybe I need to do some work to determine other characteristics of the VSS-to-ECM output. Any electrical guys know what I might try looking for? I'm thinking like voltage of the pulses or something like that.

Does the VSS pulse at all when the car is stationary? Is there a way to determine how fast the 555 timer will pulse just by knowing what resistors I used?

I have like a smorgasbord of different resistors I can try, my target is 2Hz, but I also have no way of measuring whether it's 2hz or not, I mean I can use a stopwatch but I feel like I as a human am probably not going to be accurate enough to determine if a flashing LED is in fact 2Hz by looking at it and a stopwatch at the same time.

[Natalya]

Procedure to get Auto-Stop under normal driving in a manual:
- Warm Engine (water above 130°F)
- IMA not background charging
- Outside temp above freezing

Easiest way:
- Be above 40km/h
- Press brake pedal & decelerate
- Throw into neutral while still holding brake
- Auto Stop should happen around 35km/h
-- It might happen higher (up to 40km/h) if you are decelerating really fast

So, the sequence is brake, neutral, go under 35km/h


With my EFAS (still WIP) circuit so far the only method I have to make it work is as follows:

- Be Auto-Stopped
- Press clutch switch button (tells car clutch is engaged)
- Activate EFAS circuit
- Drive and accelerate like normal, except there will be no IMA assist or regen
- Get to desired speed or top of a hill
- Put in neutral
- Hold down brake pedal (or I use brake switch)
- Auto Stop SHOULD happen
-- If it does not release the clutch switch
- Now you should have Auto Stop engine off coasting at whatever speed

That's the only way I can get it to work. I think it has to do with the pulses. I recently removed a resistor to make the pulses slightly faster. Originally I had 57kohm of resistance, but removing the resistor brought me down to 47kohm of resistance. Because I still wasn't getting the desired results, tonight I added 20kohms, so now I'm up to 67kohms of resistance which should slow the pulses more than they were originally. I have not gotten to test this, we will see how it goes.

Desired functionality:
- Be at like 80kmh
- Hold brake switch
- Throw into neutral
- ??????
- Auto Stop

At some point in that sequence I have to activate EFAS switch, I don't know when I need to be pressing the EFAS switch. I suspect that with slower pulses I'll get more leeway. Auto Stop is pretty weird, it doesn't always happen when expected

Like maybe you're at 20kmh and you throw into neutral you won't get it, but if you press brake and decel quickly you will get it, but if you let off the brake then engine restarts unless you engage the clutch switch, but if you started with the clutch switch engaged it might not want to Auto Stop until you're going slow//decel via brakes AND you release clutch switch.

Try wrapping your head around that situation. I hope that slower pulses will make it more likely to want to AS.

[NoD~]

High five for your efforts. As for me, I don't have the brains or the patience for all that, so I just paid the man $135 to send me one. haha!

I always wish I knew more about electronics. I've done a lot of speaker crossover builds, but off other people's plans. I designed my own a few times, but was never anything impressive.

Don't know if any pics or details on the board he send will help you any, but if you want them, let me know!

[Natalya]

No, I think your board is an injection cutoff switch so it's not going to have anything in common with what mine does.

I guess, for me, at some point saving gas has to also be about saving money. I mean, that's ostensibly why I bought the car. So I try to DIY everything. Also, I have fun doing this stuff.

[NoD~]

Originally Posted by Natalya

No, I think your board is an injection cutoff switch so it's not going to have anything in common with what mine does.

I guess, for me, at some point saving gas has to also be about saving money. I mean, that's ostensibly why I bought the car. So I try to DIY everything. Also, I have fun doing this stuff.

Understood and agreed! Guess you either have brains or money. I don't have much of either, but the money part is easier. haha! Good luck and keep us updated.