Go Back   EcoModder Forum > EcoModding > Motorcycles / Scooters
Register Now
 Register Now
 

Reply  Post New Thread
 
Submit Tools LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 12-17-2014, 04:53 PM   #781 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: WI
Posts: 422
Thanks: 131
Thanked 67 Times in 45 Posts
In case you haven't seen their video gallery - Gallery | Elio Motors

  Reply With Quote
Alt Today
Popular topics

Other popular topics in this forum...

   
Old 12-17-2014, 05:55 PM   #782 (permalink)
EcoModding Lurker
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Tulsa, OK
Posts: 21
Thanks: 0
Thanked 6 Times in 3 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by jkv357 View Post
In case you haven't seen their video gallery - Gallery | Elio Motors
OK, let's look at what's in that video gallery:

Perpetual Motion Machine posted 11.18.14 (a whiteboard video, no video of car, or production)

The Elio In The Snow posted 04.29.14

The Elio On FOX & Friends posted 04.29.14

Engine posted 09.13.13 (computer animated)

P4 Visits The Plant posted 11.18.14 (conceptual prototype drives through completely empty plant)

Try Elio On For Size posted 09.30.14 (videos of people sitting in the P4 conceptual prototype)

Elio At The Albuquerque International Baloon Fiesta posted 11.14.14 (P4 conceptual prototype on display)

hmmmmm .... notice anything?

Let's scroll down to the picture gallery.

Here's the first one:

http://www.eliomotors.com/wp-content...3.50.48-PM.png

And it's captioned: The Next Generation Elio. A brand new picture of the 4th Prototype, in Creamsicle

hmmm .... a brand new picture ..... of the same orange P4 conceptual prototype they've been showing for more than a year.

They're not even updating their website.

I'm afraid they've run out of money, and are trying to "fake it till they make it" in the hope of getting that government loan guarantee.

I've also been thinking about that decision to make their own engine. Elio says they did it because the available powerplants were designed for heavier cars, and wouldn't be optimized for a car as light as the Elio.

That doesn't make sense. All it would take would be a camshaft change to optimize any crate engine for the Elio. The fact is, any mismatch would likely be too much torque. An engine designed for a car that weighs 2,500 lbs would need to make more torque than one designed for a 1,200 lb car, but too much torque (up to a point) would be a good thing, allowing short-shifting and keeping the revs low.

What does make sense, then? Factoring in the propensity I believe I've seen for hype, and smoke-and-mirrors, I can't help but wonder if Mr. Elio hasn't painted himself into a corner with the claims he's made, and is now paying the piper?

First, he promised 84 mpg. Remember, he made that promise before he even constructed a prototype. Looking at the differences between the P3 and P4 conceptual prototypes gives us a clue, I believe. They changed the headlights. Now, I believe the headlights on the P4 look much better, but Elio claims they made the change after aerodynamic testing. Think about that for a minute.

There is no way the P4's headlights aren't much more expensive than the P3's. That's working against another of Mr. Elio's promises: a 6,800.00 base price point, so any added expense has to be an anathema to them. Any gains in mpg they might see from the aerodynamic improvements offered by the changed headlights would be minimal, so that suggests to me that they are having a hard time getting to that number, and are looking for the slightest edge, even if it cuts into their margins.

There's another Paul Elio promise that I believe could be part of the problem: 90% American-made. The engine is a major component. If you use an imported engine, what does that do to your 90% claim? Especially if you find there are other parts that can't be sourced here ... like, I don't know, maybe a transaxle that goes with that engine?

Here's the thing. The fact that Paul Elio made those promises: 84 mpg, 90% America-made, 6,800.00 base price, before he had even built a prototype, before he knew what engine he'd be using, speaks to a "fake it till you make it" mentality that concerns me more and more.

Would you be any less interested in an Elio if it got 74 mpg, was 80% American-made, and had a 7,300.00 base price? I wouldn't. That's still a massive improvement over anything else that's out there.

Now, though, if Elio delivers anything less than what has been promised, they look like failures. They've painted themselves into a very small corner.

They have someone manning their Facebook page 24 hours a day. They update that page multiple times each day, but with recycled material. They haven't put anything new on their webpage in months, yet they solicit funds constantly.

Not good.
  Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to seanof30306 For This Useful Post:
adam728 (12-18-2014), Frank Lee (12-17-2014), jkv357 (12-19-2014)
Old 12-18-2014, 11:11 PM   #783 (permalink)
EcoModding Lurker
 
OBD1Kenobi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Southeastern Wisconsin
Posts: 70
Thanks: 14
Thanked 6 Times in 6 Posts
Are you sure that Paul Elio isn't affiliated with the government? Lots of promises, lots of far reaching claims with no proof, all of the smoke and mirrors. Sounds like he's running for office to me!
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2014, 08:32 AM   #784 (permalink)
Rat Racer
 
Fat Charlie's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Route 16
Posts: 2,903

Al the Third, year four - '13 Honda Fit Base
Team Honda
90 day: 43.44 mpg (US)
Thanks: 932
Thanked 1,076 Times in 702 Posts
No, he just has to speak governmentese to get the government loan package.
__________________

Quote:
Originally Posted by sheepdog44 View Post
Transmission type Efficiency
Manual neutral engine off.100% @MPG <----- Fun Fact.
Manual 1:1 gear ratio .......98%
CVT belt ............................88%
Automatic .........................86%

  Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2014, 10:44 AM   #785 (permalink)
EcoModding Apprentice
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: harrisburg pa
Posts: 121
Thanks: 5
Thanked 10 Times in 7 Posts
I feel we will be seeing the slow death of an unborn savior. Thank you government regulations. The Texas ban could be one where an argument can be won with what is defined as a saddle. But the CT ban would need special consideration. Read that as large campaign contributions. Personally I would still be happy buying one even if I can't go visit relatives in CT. I'll be sure to take my 20 mpg jeep and smog them up. If any more states find ways to deny motorcycle classification this thing will be mostly dead in the US.
__________________
With my Wrangler I average 40 mpg. Triumph Speedmaster 60 mpg + Jeep 20 mpg = 40 mpg!
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2014, 12:03 PM   #786 (permalink)
EcoModding Apprentice
 
adam728's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Michigan
Posts: 159

Mazda3 - '08 Mazda 3 S
90 day: 29.65 mpg (US)

DR650SE - '13 Suzuki DR650SE
90 day: 46.16 mpg (US)

Wife's - '12 GMC Terrain SLE-2
Thanks: 2
Thanked 22 Times in 18 Posts
I don't think it will be too long before many more states jump on closing the "motorcycle" loophole. But I don't think it'll be the Elio causing it, rather, the Polaris Slingshot.

I can't say I'm against it. These things are clearly designed as cars, not saddle & handlebar bikes with a sidecar or trike conversion. I do think the emissions/safety regulations should not be as strict as for full on automobiles though.
__________________
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2014, 12:49 PM   #787 (permalink)
Rat Racer
 
Fat Charlie's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Route 16
Posts: 2,903

Al the Third, year four - '13 Honda Fit Base
Team Honda
90 day: 43.44 mpg (US)
Thanks: 932
Thanked 1,076 Times in 702 Posts
I'm on board with that: if on the EPA test it burns 1/4 the gas of a regular car, let it be 4x as dirty as a regular car and the atmosphere sees... a reguar car.
__________________

Quote:
Originally Posted by sheepdog44 View Post
Transmission type Efficiency
Manual neutral engine off.100% @MPG <----- Fun Fact.
Manual 1:1 gear ratio .......98%
CVT belt ............................88%
Automatic .........................86%

  Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2014, 12:57 PM   #788 (permalink)
EcoModding Apprentice
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: harrisburg pa
Posts: 121
Thanks: 5
Thanked 10 Times in 7 Posts
I thing all these auto regs are crap to engineer a society. Seriously a car needs crumple zones, airbags, seat belts while I can become bug spatter on my motorcycle? Why do I have that choice but not the choice of no air bags? Don't say safety from big brother. If that was the case every first time DUI should have their license revoked for life. Sorry I digress.
__________________
With my Wrangler I average 40 mpg. Triumph Speedmaster 60 mpg + Jeep 20 mpg = 40 mpg!
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2014, 01:18 PM   #789 (permalink)
home of the odd vehicles
 
rmay635703's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Somewhere in WI
Posts: 2,609

Silver - '10 Chevy Cobalt XFE
Thanks: 218
Thanked 403 Times in 306 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by doclees View Post
If that was the case every first time DUI should have their license revoked for life. Sorry I digress.
Having a $5 cellular disable device in every car would also help.
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2014, 02:14 PM   #790 (permalink)
EcoModding Lurker
 
OBD1Kenobi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Southeastern Wisconsin
Posts: 70
Thanks: 14
Thanked 6 Times in 6 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fat Charlie View Post
I'm on board with that: if on the EPA test it burns 1/4 the gas of a regular car, let it be 4x as dirty as a regular car and the atmosphere sees... a reguar car.
Just take a look at the European VW tdi motor. It actually gets better mileage and pollutes less per mile than the U.S. tdi motor from VW but it actually pollutes more per gallon. Over a course of the same distance in both cars, the euro tdi burns less fuel and pollutes less. Apples-Oranges. Sure would love to have a Euro spec tdi here though.

  Reply With Quote
Reply  Post New Thread


Thread Tools




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.5.2
All content copyright EcoModder.com