Accord Hybrid gets 47mpg and Civic Hybrid gets 45mpg?

[redeemed763]

Ok, what on earth am I missing here? I always thought a Civic Hybrid should be able to do better than it does, but now an accord hybrid comes out as a mid size sedan (what used to be full size a decade ago) and gets 45mpg highway, 50mpg city. Yeah, I know most people get way worse mpg than the EPA estimates, even after the EPA changed their rules a few years back, but these are the same consumer reporting watchdog (idiots) who are going around getting 32mpg's in a prius and 48mpg in the gen1 insight.

[Carbon]

The Accord's engine is more advanced. It has 13:1 compression vs 10.8:1. 16 valves vs. 8 valves. It's CARB rating is LEV3-SULEV30 vs ULEV2/AT-PZEV.

The electric motor in the Accord is rated at 166HP vs 23HP in the Civic. They don't list the battery size, but you can bet it's bigger in the Accord. That is a huge amount of additional work the electric motor can do that the gas engine doesn't have to.

The Civic torque rating is listed as 127 @ 1000-3500. The Accord on the other hand is listed as 122 @ 3500-6000 (thank you DOHC). The Civic is designed to rely more heavily on the gas engine than the Accord.

Final drive ratio is 3.42 in the Accord vs 3.94 in the Civic. That right there is highway mileage.

The two cars are just not designed with the same balance in mind. Perhaps the next refresh of the Civic will reflect increases commensurate with the 2015 accord.

[redeemed763]

Yeah, I know the accord reflects a lot of new advancements in hybrid technology, I am just amazed that it does better for being such a larger car, and the civic hybrid never really impressed me much. We have a 2000 Civic HX and with its lean burn and light weight, it does decently better than the 2004 Civic hybrid we had. I always felt that Honda did poorly on the Civic Hybrid design, this just shows what they can do when they have their head in the game.

[MetroMPG]

I think what you're seeing is primarily the difference between Honda's old vs. new hybrid design in terms of engine-off abilities.

The Civic's "old school" IMA approach meant the gas engine is always turning when the car is moving, regardless of whether it's actually running.

In the new Accord's system, the engine is often completely de-coupled and shut down (like Toyota & Ford's systems), which means more (and more efficient) electric-only propulsion, as well as far more efficient engine-off gliding (whenever the accelerator is released).

My dad has a '10 Civic hybrid, and it doesn't glide worth a darn.

[UFO]

The Accord has a 166HP electric motor? I have a hard time believing that. If it was full electric it wouldn't need that kind of HP. If true, for 5 MPG more, that is more than overkill in a hybrid.

[Xist]

Why purchase a Civic when the Accord gets better fuel economy?! Honda, shut up and take my money!

[RedDevil]

Why, the Civic is cheaper to buy, cheaper to insure; the Accords better economy may never make up for the difference.
With a 45 mpg baseline savings over that will always be marginal.
The Accord may be more pleasant to drive, and well worth the money for that.

I like the Accords hybrid system for being rudely simple.
No gearbox...!
Is this the way all hybrids will be built in the future?

From Explaining the Honda Accord's Shrewdly Designed New Hybrid System – Tech Dept. – Car and Driver:

The engine powers a generator and (optionally) the wheels. The first motor/generator is always connected to the wheels, the second generator(/motor) to the engine; all linked by fixed gears.

[redeemed763]

Sounds great for the masses, it looks to be well suited for just getting in and driving "normal" for most people ie brutal on economy. My dad test drove my insight last night for the first time and I watched in dismay as my avg trip economy dropped from 64.8mpg to 62.4mpg over the course of a few miles, all stop and and start, violently plowing through gears, slamming on brakes.

Personally, I would hate driving a car that did everything for me

BTW, it looks like electric only for reverse!

[redeemed763]

Originally Posted by UFO

The Accord has a 166HP electric motor? I have a hard time believing that. If it was full electric it wouldn't need that kind of HP. If true, for 5 MPG more, that is more than overkill in a hybrid.

According to Honda, it is indeed 124kw (166hp) what I find is curious is that the engine is 141hp but the "system" hp is 196hp, this shows how ingenious the system is by having two propulsion devices with completely different powerbands blended together.

I always wondered why they didn't do this from the start but assumed that it just never worked in the end for some reason.

[Fat Charlie]

Efficiency isn't an economy feature any more, it's a luxury feature.