European Diesels

[thomasj223]

I was recently in France and the peugeot 206 I drove around was a small turbo-diesel that had some decent pep and provided me with well over 60 us mpg... This is a pretty typical car in France and would fit 5 people, i would say it is about the size of a yaris or mazda3. I wonder why the us market is so diesel-averse when they are capable of such economy?

[vtec-e]

Emissions. Despite chucking less out they are for some reason dirtier? So you can drive a way dirtier v8 no problem. I don't get it either.

[Litotes]

Tell me if I am incorrect but i though the reason the states have such a low pick up of diesels is that the emissions regulations are more stringent (not co2 but something else). So in the EU it provides benefits on road tax and mpg but not true in the US.

[MorphDaCivic]

I was in France last month also. Seeems about 80% of the cars there are diesel. Just from an observation point of view, they appeared to be clean burning without any noticeable smell or black smoke.

I drove a beltching Mercedes 300D for years so I know what a dirty diesel looks like.

Seems that the US lags the EU in many ways.

[thomasj223]

I think it is partly emissions, but you see VW tdi engines and other small diesel offerings here. The peugeot had no visible exhaust smoke. Many more diesels stateside seem to have some visible exhaust (especially the large trucks - almost non-existant in europe) or some particulate build-up on thier bumpers near the exhaust pipe.

I know there is a nox-pm tradeoff with diesels, maybe the peugeot had slightly out of epa-spec nox? I know the entry-level price of the peugeot was relatively low and comparable to US available alternatives. I just don't understand why this segment is missing.

Another comment: Diesel is slightly cheaper than petrol where I was, but these prices are controlled by government tax and levies. US diesel fuel seems to cost more than gasoline. The government forces diesel fuel to be more expensive in the US as far as I am aware. Diesel requires less investment in refining and production.

-Just some thoughts

[euromodder]

Originally Posted by thomasj223

I was recently in France and the peugeot 206 I drove around was a small turbo-diesel that had some decent pep and provided me with well over 60 us mpg...

You probably had a 1.4 or 1.6 HDI diesel then - same engine family as I got in my car.

I wonder why the us market is so diesel-averse when they are capable of such economy?

Diesels aren't the ideal solution.
The have better FE, but they also pump out more NOx and microscopic particles.

That's why diesels now get particle filters - eliminating any belching smoke - but particle filters apparently make the tiny particles even smaller and more harmful as a result (the smaller they are, the deeper they go into your lungs).

Diesel particles are a serious source for concern in countries with very high % of diesel cars like France and Belgium

[jamesqf]

A lot of the reason that diesel cars aren't popular in the US is (as I've said before) the widespread perception that they're dirty, noisy, and stinky; a perception that's reinforced by the fact that the diesel pickup trucks &c that are fairly popular around here ARE dirty, noisy, and stinky.

Now maybe it's possible to build a clean & quiet diesel engine, but US automakers have evidently chosen not to. And as for the European imports: well, if they're not making obvious noise & stink, nobody ever notices that they're diesel.

[Duffman]

I think fuel cost (govt taxation) has a lot to do with it. I see a lot of Americans ***** about the higher price of diesel in the U.S. but where I live I get diesel for about 10 cents per litre less in the summer time (the gap narrows slightly in the winter), so on top of getting better economy I also can buy fuel cheaper. It definately makes the economics of it more favourable and I think fuel is taxed similarly in Europe as well.

[slowmover]

I compared my diesel pickup with an otherwise identical gas version where the owner used it in the same manner as I. So long as diesel was not more than 50-cents more than gasoline per gallon it was a wash. But the diesel will last a great deal longer, is capable of more work, and I was not (at the time) striving for highest mileage in all instances. The advantages of diesel are not -- in the right configuration -- limited to fuel economy.

[320touring]

Originally Posted by thomasj223

I was recently in France and the peugeot 206 I drove around was a small turbo-diesel that had some decent pep and provided me with well over 60 us mpg... This is a pretty typical car in France and would fit 5 people, i would say it is about the size of a yaris or mazda3. I wonder why the us market is so diesel-averse when they are capable of such economy?

back in the dim distant past,the french government decided on diesel as the fuel for its people..

They own shares in pugeot, citroen and renault, so had direct contro( over development-to the extent that the ONLY french car worth buying is a diesel one. Ford europe use rebranded peugeot HDI lumps in several of their cars.

Rural folks in france also have access to small 2 seater cars subsidised by the government-diesel and 80+mpg.

As for the USA-do the laws on emissions vary in every state? Are diesels more acceptable in some states than others?