Feasability of an Electric Insight

[freebeard]

A Smart EV cradle would be stand alone and simply need the rear Insight tub modded to set the Insight glider. In place on top

Minimal work and oem

Okay then. I guess it hinges on the definition of 'glider'. This sounds like a sub-frame swap at the wrong end of the car. I was thinking along the lines of dropping a '50 Mercury lead sled body on a mid-80s GM chassis.

Originally Posted by SH@UN

Me too! The plural of anecdote is not data. Efforts here range from not worth doing because it adds wood and coroplast to a steel body, to work that would pass tech inspection at Bonneville. And from wtf were they thinking to pure genius.

I'm interested in the overlap of those sets. aerohead kinda hits all four points of the compass. Shedding parts on the Salt and all.

[thingstodo]

Originally Posted by Daox

I also know a local guy who is looking to get rid of some GE brand 11" DC series wound motors that are apparently very nice (better quality and durability) than a warp 11 HV at a fraction of the price. This guy is a professional motor tester (works for Helwig Carbon, a brush manufacturer) and knows his stuff.

I'm all for over-kill ... but a Warp 11 HV style motor in an INSIGHT?!?

You'd have a power-to-weight ratio that would let you burn the tires off in any of your gears ... before you broke something in the drivetrain ...

I guess you could limit the torque on the controller to something that the drivetrain can handle ...

If I remember correctly the Warp 11 HV is based on a GE design ...

Anyway ... the GE motor is likely a bit heavier than required. With a motor that over-sized you may not have the DC motor heating issues that others have in their highway capable conversions

[Daox]

The reason I mention it would be cheaper than any Warp motor. And yes, it would be quite fun in an Insight.

[Stubby79]

Your front bumper would be dragging on the ground from all the weight up front!

[rmay635703]

Originally Posted by Daox

The reason I mention it would be cheaper than any Warp motor. And yes, it would be quite fun in and Insight.

Controller and rpms limit power anyway

Thankfully an insight is geared up high enough that you don't have to turn many rpms to go

[roflwaffle]

Mark Bishop's conversion is crazy clean, and I think he has more trunk space than a stock Insight.

Ensight -- Build #297 (account required)
All electric 2000 Honda Insight - Insight Central: Honda Insight Forum

If his numbers are right, you could get 175+ miles at 60mph with two first gen Volt packs if you're OK with no trunk.

[ChuckLohre]

Saw a post that a science teacher in new Zealand had done it. I couldn't get a hold of her.

Saved a copy of a VX bus 8 hp conversion from Homepower.com. Saved it because all total the Insight G1 had 80 hp.

[IamIan]

Just a few things I've picked up here and there when I've read and toyed with the idea.

As I recall .. from previous discussions and such .. Stripping the Insight down gives you at most an upper of of around ~180kg to work with .. without gaining any OEM weight.

The biggest / heaviest part will likely be the battery.

I don't tend to use it that ay .. but I did once run pure EV-Mode in my PHEV Insight for ~4Miles on a flat / level road it took ~9.4kw 5th gear to maintain ~50MPH .. ~5.4Miles per Kwh .. and that included about ~3.5kw of all the Air pumping losses / Friction / etc , of rotating the ICE .. I had previously run tests of power usage not moving just using IMA to rotate the ICE .. or about only ~5.9 kw of actual motive push the car , ~37% OEM was used for ICE losses .. or without ICE looses would have been around ~8.6 miles per kwh .. I think this correlates to roughly about ~98MPG from OEM ICE in LB 5th gear on flat level (similar conditions) .. Soo I used those to get the MPG you average now divide that by 11.6 to get roughly the miles per kwh driven a similar way.

If you have a usable ~50Mile range goal .. and your MPG/11.6 = about ~5 .. conservatively consuming 1kwh ever ~5 miles .. that will mean you will need roughly about ~10kwh of usable battery capacity .. if you only use the middle ~80% .. avoiding the top10% and bottom 10% .. that would mean a battery pack of ~12.5kwh.

For comparison / example .. the A123 Pouch cells I used for my PHEV build are about ~120wh/kg at the cell level .. to get ~12.5kwh at the pack level from A123 Cells would likely come in around ~125kg .. leaving about ~55kg (if staying at OEM Weight) for all the rest , motor , controller , etc.

While at the top end (of commonly available wh/kg cells) one could do the Tesla modules route although not cheap , and but load of time .. Link to get up to about ~212wh/kg at the module level .. a completed ~12.5kwh battery might weigh as little as about ~65kg .. leaving about ~115kg (is staying at OEM weight) for all the rest , motor, controller , etc.

MikeD drove around for a long time with several hundred extra pounds of weight .. soo ending up a bit heavier than OEM .. is also an option.

The OEM Insight ICE+IMA is a peak of ~60kw .. and peak combined ICE+IMA torque of ~91Ft-Lbs .. an electric motor of similar performance would have the same highway like performance , but better low end torque ability.

In this power /torque range .. the lightest (not cheap) electric motor I know of is the Emrax-188 to get ~70kw peak ~30kw continuous ~100nM (~74Ft-Lbs) peak torque .. and the motor is only ~7kg .. because it's peak torque is slightly less than the OEM Insight's you will not have to ever worry about over torquing the rest of the components .. but if finished near ~OEM weight you will have gained ~10kw of additional peak power , and better low RPM too.

Best of Luck.

[Ecky]

I'm thinking that 30kw continuous figure might be a little on the weak side if you live in a mountainous area. I'd go very slightly larger.

[Stubby79]

Good thing those little motors are "up to" 98% efficient...that's an awful lot of power for such a little motor to have to put up with!

30KW is plenty, in my mind, for such a light, aerodynamic car.