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Old 08-08-2017, 09:19 PM   #41 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by jonzobot View Post
My next plan is to increase the voltage to the ignition, injectors, and fuel pump to 15v or so. Theoretically they should spray better at higher voltage/pressure.
That... won't work. Your fuel pressure has nothing to do with your pump voltage (unless you have a pump that's too small), it's all your fuel pressure regulator. Even returnless systems have one, it's just 2" away from the in-tank pump, still inside the housing.

Increasing voltage to the injectors will decrease open time, improving flow linearity ever-so-slightly but ultimately injecting more fuel. However the air pressure over the course of the day will vary the mixtures more than this, so I wouldn't bother.

Increasing voltage to the ignition won't help much unless you are bordering on misfiring due to cylinder pressures or have a faulty coil. Side-gapping your plugs will improve burn ever-so-slightly though.

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Old 08-08-2017, 11:34 PM   #42 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by t vago View Post
Some updates -

The Dakota now has a set of these fuel injectors, and runs as nicely with them, as do both my Magnum and my Durango.

Finally filled up after the Magnum dinged on me today. Went 410.7 miles on 15.017 gallons, for a tank fuel economy of 27.4 MPG. The MPGuino now under-reports fuel consumption by about 1.4%, where it used to over-report by about 4%. The MPGuino reports that I got 27.5 MPG. Not quite the 20% I had figured (and had secretly hoped for, to be honest), but still...

This is a improvement of 11.6% from the previous tank (02 July fillup) in which the old fuel injectors were used, and an improvement of 4% from the immediate last full tank that I put in two weeks ago.
11.6% is good. You'd be hard pressed to get an 11% increase with other methods...my wheel covers were (only) worth 7%.
How did you determine these 0280156161 injectors are 12-hole? I'm coming up with nothing. Found them at Bosch Fuel Injector Catalog Wholesale Prices No Charge for $25 each. If I could get the same results with my 4.7L, that'd be fantastic.
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Old 08-09-2017, 12:15 AM   #43 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BLSTIC View Post
That... won't work. Your fuel pressure has nothing to do with your pump voltage (unless you have a pump that's too small), it's all your fuel pressure regulator. Even returnless systems have one, it's just 2" away from the in-tank pump, still inside the housing.

Increasing voltage to the injectors will decrease open time, improving flow linearity ever-so-slightly but ultimately injecting more fuel. However the air pressure over the course of the day will vary the mixtures more than this, so I wouldn't bother.

Increasing voltage to the ignition won't help much unless you are bordering on misfiring due to cylinder pressures or have a faulty coil. Side-gapping your plugs will improve burn ever-so-slightly though.
Thank you for your comments

Just to be clear, my plan is only to increase to the voltage of the fuel pump to help maintain fuel pressure to its factory spec. As it stands without the alternator I am running about 2.5-3v less than spec (roughly 12.0v under load when fully charged). I theorize that this reduced voltage reduces the available pressure - though to confirm for sure would necessitate a fuel gauge, and I don't have one in the toolbox.

Fuel injector opening time is admittedly a minor concern but if I'm going the route of messing with bus voltage this one is a relatively easy "while I'm there" mod. Ditto with the spark.

If nothing else, it will get my MPGuino back in calibration, as it gets thrown off when I switch the alternator on/off.

Off topic, I'd like to take this moment to say

Wahoo! I made the top ten list on the front page
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Old 08-09-2017, 05:41 AM   #44 (permalink)
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Are there finer spraying injectors for late 90's Ford 302 V8's as used in the Explorer and Mountaineer?

How about early 90's GM TBI 350 V8?
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Old 08-09-2017, 04:24 PM   #45 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by t vago View Post
I think that part of my gain is due to the already-installed coolant-based warm air intake. The fuel fog generated by the new injectors is pushed further toward a gaseous state by the warm air (about 40 F above ambient temperature).

This morning saw a 27.8 MPG trip fuel economy.
As far a warm air intakes, thermal dynamically as in the Bratton cycle, recouperated engines heat the air after the compression stage or turbo compressor. Wherby any heat added is fuel burn need a reduced for the best BSFC. However the intake temperature of the compressor stage or turbo is best ambient to cooled.

Thinking of a design to heat the air after the turbo would take some creative plumbing, but would yeild the best savings instead BSFC.

Fogg cooling the intake of the compressor can further reduce BSFC.
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Old 08-09-2017, 10:19 PM   #46 (permalink)
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Old 08-12-2017, 07:48 PM   #47 (permalink)
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Great results! I have seen customers of mine gain around 5% more power at the wheels just from an injector change and associated re calibration. A larger injector can some times also help with atomization indirectly since less time is required for the same amount of fuel to be sprayed and ideal injection timing can be effected in some cases. Also, even if your fuel pump is only running at 12v volts you will still have the same fuel pressure in all but the most extreme cases especially at the low engine loads you are concerned about. Another thing is that higher fuel pressure will 9 times out of 10 give you worse atomization and mean that your ecm is further from being accurately calibrated. Most factory engine management will only adjust fuel delivery +/- 20% max so if you hit that point like it seems the OP has you could be running richer than you have to. Another thing to be aware of is that two injectors rated for the same max fuel flow may have very different flow characteristics below 10% duty cycle. Even modern injectors of the same part number made in the same factory on the same day can vary considerably at low duty cycle so much so that many aftermarket companies like Injector Dynamics sell sets that are matched and come with there own flow data different from the next set. Best results will always be had with a proper ecu calibration when a hardware change is made.
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Old 08-12-2017, 11:01 PM   #48 (permalink)
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For some V type engines, changing the way the fuel rails for each bank re connected can make a significant difference.

One example. On the 2004 and earlier Dodge Dakota with 4.7L OHC V8 the fuel enters in the middle of the left rail. The front of the left rail is connected to the front of the right rail. Right rail fuel, especially to the rear two injectors, has much more time to get heated up. There are two fixes for this, one fairly easy one not so easy.

The not so easy method involves buying more injector rails and a second cross connection pipe then modifying the rails to connect at both ends.

The easier method involves installing a T into the fuel line then running a high pressure hose across to the fuel pressure test/bleed fitting in the middle of the right rail. Nothing has to be removed except for disconnecting the fuel line so it can be cut for installing the T.

Either mod evens out the pressure and temperature of the fuel. Dunno if anyone has done both mods.

Some who have done one of those mods say they've gotten measurable HP and torque gains at the rear wheels on a dyno, as well as better MPG.
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Old 08-13-2017, 12:20 PM   #49 (permalink)
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I did some thing similar on my camaro. I did see power gains but wasn't paying attention to economy at the time but it stands to reason that there would have been one.
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Old 08-13-2017, 11:43 PM   #50 (permalink)
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Thanks for this valuable input.

I'm not sure I want to go the way of ecu calibration - I guess it depends on difficulty and cost for this vehicle. I know some people do it when adding turbos. I think I might spring for sending in the injectors to be balanced and flow matched though.

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