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Old 04-16-2017, 10:36 PM   #1 (permalink)
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G2 highway mileage

I have been giving the G2 Insight some thought. Been doing a little reading on them and it seems they can beat the pants off the EPA numbers for the highway. I have seen numbers well into the 50s and sometimes approaching 60. Is this true? I am a field tech and I drive a lot, with the great majority being highway. As we all know, the G2 Insight seems to be the red-headed step child of the Hybrid world at this time. I assume that has a lot to do with the IMA system which gives up a lot to the EV only drive mode of the Prius. I am seeing low mile, good looking G2s on CL for ridiculously low prices. If I had to drive into a big city every day, I wouldn't consider one, but I don't. If this is a comfy highway cruiser that can get into the 50s, with the practicality of a hatchback. Another nice thing is that it seems Honda has more or less worked out the IMA bugs with the G2. Is this so?

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Old 04-17-2017, 12:33 AM   #2 (permalink)
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What highway speeds are you looking at?
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Old 04-17-2017, 06:50 AM   #3 (permalink)
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70ish.

I did see in a review that a downside to the G2 is that it felt rather unsettled at high speed.

While this could be looked at as a bad thing, my wallet thinks otherwise.

The trouble with todays cars is that they are too damn good at making 85 mph feel like 50 mph. I find that with such cars, CC is absolutely mandatory, because if you don't use it and look down the road (as you should) rather than at the speedo, you will soon find yourself doing 0 mph parked on the shoulder of the highway handing your license/reg/insurance to a nice man with a big hat. I recently had a maxima as a rental. I turned the damn thing in, partly because hatchbacks suit me better to carry stuff and partly because it was way too easy to find yourself doing 93 mph when you thought you were doing 73.

I realize that if I set the cruise at 72, my typical cruise speed, I won't get such numbers, but if it is capable of 55mpg at 60, it ought to get 45 at 70. I was actually leaning towards a gen 1 as I prefer to row my own gears, but they are getting elderly and dead battery packs do appear to be a concern. Also, I've grown rather fond of factory blue tooth while driving new rentals over the last year or two. There is a nearby 2013 EX with low miles and a low price.

The one thing that concerns me is it does have a rebuilt title. Of course, seeing as the kbb has plummeted on these, it could have been a rather minor accident that lead to the rebuilt title. A carfax should answer that question.
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Old 04-17-2017, 09:21 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Here's a speed vs MPG chart for the G1:




You can probably hit 55mpg even in an SUV if you drive slow enough. Drag goes up exponentially with speed (as I'm sure you already know).

Honda's IMA has a few advantages over Toyota's system. If the big battery dies for whatever reason, you don't get stuck on the side of the road. Lots of people drive G1's around with the big hybrid battery removed entirely, but it's not fun if you're using a CVT model. I also once had the ground on my engine kill switch fail, which cut power to my injectors. I was only a few miles home, so I mashed the pedal to the floor and managed to make it back on electricity alone in my G1.

You can drive around in "EV mode" in Honda's later IMA hybrids, but the IMA is bolted to the engine's crankshaft, so you're still moving the pistons even if they're not firing. The valvetrain closes all of the valves so you're not pumping air though, so engine drag is greatly reduced.

On my G1 I have cruise control, bluetooth, HID projectors, a ~700w 4.1 sound system, and a trailer hitch. Next on my list of creature comforts are the seats - the stock ones were presumably designed with only weight reduction in mind.





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Old 04-17-2017, 04:28 PM   #5 (permalink)
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So my G2 is a 2010 which is a little less aerodynamic than a 2013 G2 (Honda redesiigned the rear bumper in 2012 which knocked down the coefficient of drag by 0.01) and I also have some front bumper damage from the previous owner. I mostly got the front bumper pushed back into shape, but there might still be an aero penalty. I do have a big coroplast panel underneath the back of the car to smooth out the airflow down there.

I can get into the 60's if I drive slow on the highway, low 50's or high 40's if I go faster. If you get a 2013 or 2014 the superior aero should help your highway mileage. But you could also put one of those panels under the back of your car to see if it helps.

Also, I've only owned this car in the winter months... as we approach summer we'll see what kind of mileage I can get. And I have the wrong tires on the front, it's supposed to use Bridgestone Ecopias, so my car might be at a significant disadvantage over the 2013 you're looking at. And the EX has aluminum wheels while mine has heavy steelies.

As for the battery, my understanding is that if you get the three software updates done by a Honda dealership then you should be fine for like 200K miles or something ridiculous. The main update is actually a recall, but when you're at the service counter ask them to look for any other software updates and apply them if they find any.

I guess what I'm saying is you should be able to do better than me with a 2013 EX in stock configuration, just get the recalls done.
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Old 04-17-2017, 09:49 PM   #6 (permalink)
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I was mistaken. The one I am interested in is a 2010.
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Old 04-17-2017, 10:23 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ecky View Post
Here's a speed vs MPG chart for the G1:


Honda's IMA has a few advantages over Toyota's system. (1) If the big battery dies for whatever reason, you don't get stuck on the side of the road. Lots of people drive G1's around with the big hybrid battery removed entirely, but it's not fun if you're using a (2) CVT model. I also once had the ground on my engine kill switch fail, which cut power to my injectors. I was only a few miles home, so I mashed the pedal to the floor and managed to make it back on electricity alone in my G1.

(3) You can drive around in "EV mode" in Honda's later IMA hybrids, but the IMA is bolted to the engine's crankshaft, so you're still moving the pistons even if they're not firing. The valvetrain closes all of the valves so you're not pumping air though, so engine drag is greatly reduced.
(1) is completely false in the context given. The instances in which a Prius, or any other Toyota hybrid, is dead on the side of the road due to a failed hybrid battery are extremely rare. Yes, the Prius is heavily dependent on its HV battery as it's the only way to start the ICE, and it can't be driven "gas-only" like most IMA powered cars, but the alarmist picture is unwarranted. I can say that I am intimately familiar with over 50 Toyota HV battery battery failures, and not a single one was stuck on the side of the road. For a few with severe battery deterioration rivaling the typical IMA battery failure, they were gutless and in "limp" mode, but they were mobile.

(2) Not sure where you're getting this. The CVT is actually better to drive with a disabled IMA because the CVT allows the engine to operating in a more favorable power band. The bypassed MT are gutless.

(3) Having owned two, it's woefully unimpressive, but it's true. I never noticed how frequently it would actually go into EV mode until the unused O2 sensor plug came out of my aftermarket Magnaflow Cat... WOW!!! 1.3L RWAR! It was easy to tell the difference when the ICE was firing and when it wasn't

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Old 04-18-2017, 10:07 AM   #8 (permalink)
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A G2 will do around EPA economy at 75 mph constant, flat, not too much wind.
Raising the tire pressure to 40 PSI helps a little and makes it more stable at speed.

Bluetooth (on EX models) pairs with your phone but won't stream music to the radio.
An USB stick in the armrest does, so does an iPod - including playlist support etc.

G2s are the like it or hate it kind of car. Make sure you get a long test run.
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Old 04-18-2017, 06:09 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Red Devil,

I see you are averaging 55.4. Not bad. What sort of driving is this? Is the Euro Insight different?
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Old 04-19-2017, 03:30 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Mainly right lane highway following the semis at a respectable distance at about 50 to 55 mph. Then some rural roads (though rural is relative in Europe's most densely populated country) and city driving, all aiming at max efficiency without disrupting traffic.
Put some local school, shopping and swimming pool trips on that and you see why it isn't 60 mpg Everything around sea level except the swimming pool trip (huge bridge).
I do the occasional faster run (120 km/h by GPS, about 75 mph) on the highway if time is of essence. Then it will do typically around 5 l/100 km instant FE which is about 46 mpg. Add in cold starts and traffic jams and you get around EPA then.

The European models have only minor differences: no DRLs nor side markers, no TPMS, no spare but an inflation kit, but we do have the rolling tarp boot area cover and in my case under door exit lights which do actually work if you replace the bulbs in them with LED grids.
Some EX level trims have heated seats but mine ('Elegance' is comparable to EX) does not.

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