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Old 08-04-2017, 12:55 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Honda needs to down-size to something like the GenII CVCC Civics.

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Old 08-17-2017, 05:51 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Tele man View Post
Honda needs to down-size to something like the GenII CVCC Civics.
I don't know about that.
My 3rd gen Civic was more economical than the 2nd gens, and much more practical and spacious (though 'spacious' is not what jumps to mind when considering its boot space, but nvm.)

It falls short on about everything compared to my 2nd gen Insight though. Economy, interior space, safety (by a wide margin!), reliability, even looks.

Curtain airbags? Climate control? VSC? MP3? Bluetooth phone support?
My Civic had front wheel steering for luxury, and one single disconnected loudspeaker in the left door only (as I found out trying to fit a radio)

Best ever tank economy on the Civic was 23 km/l and that was an outlier; 18 km/l usually was tops in summer weather.
23 km/l per tank happens on the Insight too. But only during the winter season.
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Old 08-17-2017, 08:15 PM   #13 (permalink)
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I was including: less weight, smaller external volume, smaller engine than today's BIG compact box.
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Old 08-18-2017, 04:30 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Due to safety regulations you cannot make a car smaller without adding weight, actually.
The smaller the crumpling zones are, the sturdier they need to be, and the rest of the frame too to withstand the forces those crash zones pass through.

Lighter materials can compensate but then you'd make it more expensive. But most people would only buy a really small car if they can't afford to buy a bigger 'normal sized' one.

I bought my Insight because the space it offered is adequate to my needs. Even so I have to fight to get all the holiday stuff in and such. We sometimes leave out stuff we would have taken aboard if there was more space.
I would not even consider buying a 3rd gen Insight if it is going to be smaller inside.

The 2nd gen lost out to the Prius mainly because the Prius had much better EPA numbers. In practice the difference is not that big.
What Honda really needs to do is to make sure that the 3rd gen gets excellent EPA numbers and be cheaper than the Prius at the same size.

Only problem: that car already exists - the Hyundai Ionic.
Which looks more like the 2nd gen Insight than any other car...
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Old 08-18-2017, 09:31 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Tele man View Post
Honda needs to down-size to something like the GenII CVCC Civics.
A 4 door sedan 2nd gen Civic is 161" long with a 91" wheelbase.
The 5-door is 151" long with the same wheelbase.
The 3-door is 150" long with an 89" wheelbase.

A 2018 Honda Fit is 161" long and has a 99.6" wheelbase.

The big difference is in height/width. The 2018 Fit is 60"H x 67"W (... vs the 2nd gen Civic at 53"H x 62"W .

So total volumes (rectilinear solids in which the cars would fit):
Civic 4-dr: 306ft^3
Civic 5-dr: 287ft^3
Civic 3-dr: 285ft^3
2018 Fit: 374ft^3

Maybe the Fiat 500 would be a closer size match?
139.6"L x 59.8"H x 64.1W" with a 90.6" wheelbase (309ft^3)

A 2018 Yaris is 155.5"L x 59.4"H x 66.7"W with a 98.8" wheelbase (3 or 5 door are identical). So 356ft^3.

All of them are way heavier. Although all of them are probably a heck of a lot more survivable in a crash as well.

Food for thought.

Last edited by samwichse; 08-18-2017 at 09:54 AM..
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Old 08-18-2017, 12:30 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedDevil View Post
Due to safety regulations you cannot make a car smaller without adding weight, actually.
The smaller the crumpling zones are, the sturdier they need to be, and the rest of the frame too to withstand the forces those crash zones pass through.

Lighter materials can compensate but then you'd make it more expensive. But most people would only buy a really small car if they can't afford to buy a bigger 'normal sized' one.

Only problem: that car already exists - the Hyundai Ionic.
Which looks more like the 2nd gen Insight than any other car...
I guess that explains why the Mitsubishi Mirage is sooo heavy and expensive
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Old 08-18-2017, 02:27 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by rmay635703 View Post
I guess that explains why the Mitsubishi Mirage is sooo heavy and expensive
Yes. It is heavier than my old Civic, Rabbit (diesel!), Suzuki Alto (by a very wide margin) and Hyundai I10.
And more expensive too.
But safer, even though it is a platform shared with 3rd world markets and therefore a bit meagr on safety structures.

You are actually right, whether you meant to or not.

About the Mirage: one not too impartial comparison to a likewise expensive car here: http://www.caranddriver.com/comparis...omparison-test

The Mirage proves my point in another way too.
It is a smallish car, but definitely not the smallest you can get.

It is way bigger than a contemporary Fiat 500. (10 inches Car&Driver specs)
And lighter. (2040 versus 2366 pounds)
And cheaper.
Because it is big enough to not compromise the standard safety measures like decent crumpling zones.

We can still make really small cars, but at a cost.
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Last edited by RedDevil; 08-18-2017 at 05:40 PM..
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Old 08-20-2017, 12:07 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedDevil View Post
We can still make really small cars, but at a cost.
Considering that smaller cars are still usually seen as a mere budget choice (at least from a 3rd-world perspective like mine), while a larger one can be marketed as something more aspirational (and some people from 3rd-world countries still see car ownership as a sign of status), it's hard to make the average Joe to get into the advantages of a lightweight compact car when it comes to maneuverability in tight spaces (such as downtown parking spots) and fuel-efficiency.

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