Go Back   EcoModder Forum > EcoModding > DIY / How-to
Register Now
 Register Now
 

Reply  Post New Thread
 
Submit Tools LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 10-24-2015, 11:31 AM   #1 (permalink)
EcoModding Apprentice
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Michigan
Posts: 126

Champagne - '13 Chevy Cruze 1LT
90 day: 33.35 mpg (US)
Thanks: 16
Thanked 21 Times in 18 Posts
Homebrewed I-Eloop

I am starting this thread to document my efforts to make a homemade I-eloop system for Champagne. The plans thus far;

Research and make electrically engaged clutch to activate the regen cycle on the alternator when decelerating.

Research capacitor bank size necessary to produce enough energy to be effective and realistically beneficial to use as a source of power.

A DC/DC converter will be necessary for this. When it comes to electronics I know enough to get this off the ground but will rely heavily on input and advice from the more experienced members. This will be an all together effort

For logic control I plan on using my Arduino. I would prefer to do this on the cheap and try to reuse my alternator only design the clutch for the current pully. I have axis to machinists through work so I don't think this will be a problem.

Otherwise if this is not feasible for Champagne it will still serve as a very useful learning experience.

I will continually update this as I go and acquire/ design the required components for this system.

Cheers!

__________________

  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to BrandonMods For This Useful Post:
ME_Andy (10-24-2015)
Alt Today
Popular topics

Other popular topics in this forum...

   
Old 10-24-2015, 11:53 AM   #2 (permalink)
EcoModding Newb
 
redpoint5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Oregon
Posts: 2,884

Acura TSX - '06 Acura TSX
90 day: 31.25 mpg (US)

Lafawnda - '01 Honda CBR600 F4i
90 day: 47.32 mpg (US)

Big Yeller - '98 Dodge Ram 2500 base
90 day: 21.82 mpg (US)

Camry - '98 Toyota Camry
90 day: 27.09 mpg (US)

Prius Plug-in - '12 Toyota Prius Plug-in
90 day: 79.06 mpg (US)
Thanks: 1,125
Thanked 886 Times in 589 Posts
I like the idea and think it could somewhat work if the components were carefully selected and engineered, however the cost and complexity might not make it worth it.

If it were me, I'd instead focus on programming the alternator to electronically shutdown during normal engine operation, and startup during DFCO. Then I would select an appropriately sized LiFePO4 to replace the inefficient lead acid battery, trying to locate it somewhere within the passenger compartment or under a seat (for better temperature control). You could program the Arduino to re-engage the alternator if the voltage drops below some set threshold.

The trick would be keeping the battery from frying, which might be where a supercap and DC/DC converter might come in to act as a buffer.
__________________
Gas and Electric Vehicle Cost of Ownership Calculator







Give me absolute safety, or give me death!
  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to redpoint5 For This Useful Post:
kafer65 (10-24-2015)
Old 10-24-2015, 11:57 AM   #3 (permalink)
EcoModding Apprentice
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Michigan
Posts: 126

Champagne - '13 Chevy Cruze 1LT
90 day: 33.35 mpg (US)
Thanks: 16
Thanked 21 Times in 18 Posts
The cruze alternator uses RVC (regulated voltage control) technology already to improve fuel economy by reducing voltage being sent to the battery when the battery is fully charged. So instead of producing 14V continuously it will drop down to 12.5V and reduce the pull on the engine in order to provide power to the vehicles electronics. I guess it could be considered charging cycle on and off. Once a the battery drops to a pre-determined level of charge to alternator voltage will increase back to 14v in order to recharge the battery. The technology is already similar to I-eloop in reducing alternator load. I still think however that the system can be further improved using the I-eloop.

The alternator also enters a "batter recharge" mode when decelerating (turns up to 14v). This explains why the I-eloop is more efficient as the alternator will vary the voltage to smoothly fill the capacitor bank. I am more curious now to figure out the recharge efficiency of the recharge cycle on the cruze alternator.

This will be the starting point:

The alternator max recharge voltage: I have seen this as high as 14.4 on the DIC.
Going forward will measure battery voltage realtime and see how efficient the "recharge" cycle is on the alternator when decelerating.

This will then be compared to using the same recharge voltage of 14V to attempt a charge up on a capacitor bank. The capacitor bank charge will then be compared to the voltage gain on the batter. The energy stored will then be compared in Joules.

Comments, and advice are appreciated.
__________________

  Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2015, 12:01 PM   #4 (permalink)
EcoModding Apprentice
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Michigan
Posts: 126

Champagne - '13 Chevy Cruze 1LT
90 day: 33.35 mpg (US)
Thanks: 16
Thanked 21 Times in 18 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by redpoint5 View Post
If it were me, I'd instead focus on programming the alternator to electronically shutdown during normal engine operation, and startup during DFCO. Then I would select an appropriately sized LiFePO4 to replace the inefficient lead acid battery, trying to locate it somewhere within the passenger compartment or under a seat (for better temperature control). You could program the Arduino to re-engage the alternator if the voltage drops below some set threshold.

The trick would be keeping the battery from frying, which might be where a supercap and DC/DC converter might come in to act as a buffer.
This is also a great idea to be explored. The supercap bank would have to be sized appropriately, even over sized to protect the battery. Could a bleed off resistor be used as well in this case?
__________________


Last edited by BrandonMods; 10-24-2015 at 12:03 PM.. Reason: added quote
  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to BrandonMods For This Useful Post:
kafer65 (10-24-2015)
Old 10-24-2015, 08:48 PM   #5 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: World
Posts: 380
Thanks: 82
Thanked 77 Times in 64 Posts
Do you need the clutch or can you disable the alternator by disconnecting the field windings?

If you are using a capacitor as a buffer can you use a 24V alternator? Many alternators have 24V and 12V variants within the same basic design. Capacitor charge storage is increased with increased voltage.

Check the power requirements. There is only brief period available for energy recapture. To make it effective the power requirement is likely to be quite high. Higher voltage will help the current requirement. A capacitor bank is likely to be more effective than a chemical cell battery where power requirement, in and out, is the important criteria.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2015, 09:05 PM   #6 (permalink)
Growin a stash
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Austin TX
Posts: 418
Thanks: 227
Thanked 131 Times in 100 Posts
Mmmm I like your intention to work on the Cruze but I think you're going about this the wrong way. The logic behind the alternator is actually pretty complicated, not just "ON if voltage falls below X." For example, the alternator is automatically ON if the headdlights are on. There was a thread about it on Cruzetalk a couple days ago.

I agree with ^, why do you need a clutch? I think a better way to go about it would be:
1. Replace the Pb-acid battery with lithium ion.
2. Replace your lights with LED.
3. Set up a system to plug in and charge your battery at home.
4. THEN, set up a switch to manually disable recharge while you're driving.

No clutch needed.
__________________


2015 Nissan Leaf S
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2015, 09:29 PM   #7 (permalink)
EcoModding Apprentice
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Michigan
Posts: 126

Champagne - '13 Chevy Cruze 1LT
90 day: 33.35 mpg (US)
Thanks: 16
Thanked 21 Times in 18 Posts
could you please post a link to the thread on cruzetalk
__________________

  Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2015, 09:40 PM   #8 (permalink)
EcoModding Apprentice
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Michigan
Posts: 126

Champagne - '13 Chevy Cruze 1LT
90 day: 33.35 mpg (US)
Thanks: 16
Thanked 21 Times in 18 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Occasionally6 View Post
If you are using a capacitor as a buffer can you use a 24V alternator? Many alternators have 24V and 12V variants within the same basic design. Capacitor charge storage is increased with increased voltage.
Ideally I would like to use a 24V setup to do as you mentioned. The mazda I-eloop system uses a variable 12/25v alternator to regulate the charge build up in the capacitor bank. I know the logic behind this will be a challenge but I do think it is quite possible.

That being said from my understanding (which could be wrong) most newer cars come with variable alternators already. I could monitor this by using a multimeter to see what voltage is being produced during the recharge of the battery. I know it says on GM's website that the alternator produces 14v during the charge cycle and 12.5 in the normal running cycle but, today while driving I watched the voltage on my battery go up to 15.1v on the DIC. I wonder if the cruze alternator is already capable of 25v output.
__________________

  Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2015, 09:53 PM   #9 (permalink)
EcoModding Apprentice
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Michigan
Posts: 126

Champagne - '13 Chevy Cruze 1LT
90 day: 33.35 mpg (US)
Thanks: 16
Thanked 21 Times in 18 Posts
Found this on cruzetalk, I think this is what ME_Andy was talking about. Other than this all I could find was people wanting to keep the alternator charging to feed their power hungry aftermarket sound systems. This information is the same that is on GM's website.

I had been thinking that this might just be a side effect of the deceleration fuel cut off (DFCO) system since the car wouldn't need to be firing the cylinders while fuel wasn't being supplied to the engine but then I found this article on the Cruze's Regulated Voltage Control (RVC).

Chevy Cruze regulates voltage to boost fuel economy — Autoblog Green

This article says that the alternator normally provides reduced voltage during normal driving to reduce load on the engine and it implies that the alternator engages a bit more than usual when you are decelerating and no fuel is being supplied to the engine (due to DFCO). The alternator reclaims some kinetic energy to keep the car's electrical systems running and charge the battery. Kind of cool I guess
__________________

  Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2015, 10:43 PM   #10 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
oldtamiyaphile's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Australia
Posts: 1,211

UFI - '12 Fiat 500 Twinair
Team Turbocharged!
90 day: 49.6 mpg (US)

Jeep - '05 Jeep Wrangler Renegade
90 day: 18.09 mpg (US)

R32 - '89 Nissan Skyline

STiG - '16 Renault Trafic 140dCi Energy
90 day: 35.19 mpg (US)

Prius - '05 Toyota Prius
Team Toyota
90 day: 50.25 mpg (US)

Premodded - '49 Ford Freighter
90 day: 13.48 mpg (US)

F-117 - '10 Proton Arena GLSi
Pickups
Mitsubishi
90 day: 36.8 mpg (US)
Thanks: 254
Thanked 289 Times in 215 Posts
I've messed about with this kind of alt on UFI and here's what I found:

1. The alternator monitors charge acceptance, not just voltage (voltage can't tell you much frankly). If you fit a LiFe or supercap, you'll change charge acceptance and the alternator will become confused. I often had to stop and reset the system as it would go into safe mode (constant 14.0V). S/S was never going to work as again, charge acceptance was too high as judged by the ECU.

2. Disconnecting the alt is all but pointless. Essentially (assuming you have a serpentine belt), it's already free spinning much of the time so removing it and fitting an idler pulley won't help.

3. Charge the battery every night. You'll get a solid 5% gain as essentially the alt is now off because the battery is full. It will still ramp up on overrun for some free charging.

__________________






  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to oldtamiyaphile For This Useful Post:
MobilOne (10-25-2015)
Reply  Post New Thread


Thread Tools




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.5.2
All content copyright EcoModder.com