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Old 06-15-2017, 02:40 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fingie View Post
suddenly i feel good about living in Europe... For now.

though the phasing out of diesel in passenger cars is starting, according to EU.
The Diesel phasing out sucks but if they keep tweaking for efficiency in gas cars we should be able to make up that ground hopefully.if they had a more efficient emissions system for diesel cars they would be the way to go because without emissions they crush anything a gas car will ever do.

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Old 06-15-2017, 07:41 PM   #22 (permalink)
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I suspect another reason that some manuals get worse fuel economy than automatics in the same vehicle is that people don't know how to properly drive a stick anymore. And many of the ones that do tend to drive rather aggressively.

Yes, my truck is a manual.
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Old 06-15-2017, 08:04 PM   #23 (permalink)
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I don't know that you get manuals back. Even in Europe, automated manuals are taking hold. Folks like my Aunt in Austria are the last bastion of "automatics are for disabled and old people" (actual quote).

Even fairly enthusiastic people are tired of rowing their own gears if they sit in traffic; witness Matt Farah.

Maybe I'm not old or jaded enough, or maybe it's been too long since I sat in Bay Area traffic as a matter of course. But I myself haven't tired of stick yet.
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Old 06-16-2017, 07:02 AM   #24 (permalink)
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I recently read an article that argued that manuals would be extinct in 5(or was it 10) years. I was very disappointed at first, as I much prefer manual shifting. But then I realized I will not be buying a new manual shifting car in my life. Not because I'm old, but because when I reluctantly buy my next car it will certainly be one speed electric powered. So now I say let the manual die, let the ICE be the option for those road warriors that insist on it. I'll take electric please.
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Old 06-16-2017, 10:22 AM   #25 (permalink)
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Part of the problem is EPA fuel economy testing is stacked against manuals. They can beat any automatic in economy, price, and relialibility but because the test procedures for them to hold gears and shift at high rpm they get a rating that makes the automatic look as good if not better.

Last edited by Hersbird; 06-16-2017 at 02:57 PM..
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Old 06-16-2017, 11:21 AM   #26 (permalink)
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The new car market is the only place it matters- the used car market doesn't change manufacturing decisions.

Sadly, I can drive an auto but I know people who can't drive a manual. That means unless a dealership is really sport oriented or wants one stripper on the lot to allow ads saying "New cars as low as..." then they don't want to stock many (if any) manuals- because a car I'm not thrilled with may still leave with me, but a car my neighbor is incapable of driving isn't going anywhere.

Generally, I'm in a car for a while and the absolute hell of depending on an electronic committee for my gear selection lasts a lot longer than the time spent searching for the right car. So I decide ahead of time what I want instead of just taking what some salesman has on his lot. The internet helps here. The two new cars we've ever bought have been manuals, and I put over 200k on one and am over 80k so far on its replacement, so yeah, the bit of time spent searching has paid off (okay, it paid off on the way home both times ). We've only settled once on an auto, and that was the minivan because they just don't make them and the platform was too useful to not get. See? They made the sale despite the less than optimal transmission.

Long term, I'm hoping to otherwise skip automatics by hanging on to these increasingly rare manuals until I can move over to electrics.
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Transmission type Efficiency
Manual neutral engine off.100% @MPG <----- Fun Fact.
Manual 1:1 gear ratio .......98%
CVT belt ............................88%
Automatic .........................86%

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Old 06-16-2017, 04:48 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fat Charlie View Post
"New cars as low as..."[/I] then they don't want to stock many (if any) manuals- because a car I'm not thrilled with may still leave with me, but a car my neighbor is incapable of driving isn't going anywhere.
That is what is referred to as redneck antitheft device. At least I know not many women can steal my car lol.
Curious how hard it is to switch an automatic to manual in your typical car. Would be nice to have your choice of gearing as well. One of the metro guys has the gearing figured out from what I've seen. Pushing 60 mpg consistently when driving at posted speed limits 55+ is a nice setup. Seems I'll be stuck doing things the hard way when the time comes. That or looking for a relic in some south of the salt belt that's been stored for 20 years or so lol
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Old 06-17-2017, 04:23 AM   #28 (permalink)
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In my country, only disabled drivers are allowed to have their driving test in a vehicle fitted with automatic transmission, even though I still see many paraplegics and leg amputees who still drive cars with manual transmission. Sure a tight budget is the main reason toward shifting their own gears, but the lack of qualified technical assistance for automatic transmissions is another matter of concern back here.


Quote:
Originally Posted by hamsterpower View Post
I recently read an article that argued that manuals would be extinct in 5(or was it 10) years. I was very disappointed at first, as I much prefer manual shifting. But then I realized I will not be buying a new manual shifting car in my life. Not because I'm old, but because when I reluctantly buy my next car it will certainly be one speed electric powered. So now I say let the manual die, let the ICE be the option for those road warriors that insist on it. I'll take electric please.
Not sure about electrics becoming mainstream in such a short term, but the overwhelming majority of hybrids don't even have a traditional transmission at all. Considering the incentives for hybrids in Japan and Europe, and the used car exports from those markets to third-world countries in Africa and Latin America, it doesn't really surprise me to see manuals becoming relegated to a handful of grand-tourers and the lowest-end penalty boxes. Even in my homeland Brazil, which usually follows highly conservative standpoints when it comes to engine and transmission options, I see manuals slowly decaying.
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Old 06-17-2017, 08:49 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cRiPpLe_rOoStEr View Post
I still see many paraplegics and leg amputees who still drive cars with manual transmission.
The original solution was a vacuum actuated clutch. Take foot off gas, clutch disengages. Step on gas, clutch engages. One foot operation.

Then automatic transmissions came along and became the preferred solution in the US. That did require shifting the gas pedal over to the left side for those who lost their right leg. I got my driver's license with a left foot accelerator.

My dad knew an amputee that drove a motorcycle.
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Old 06-17-2017, 11:12 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 14'ecocruze View Post
The Diesel phasing out sucks but if they keep tweaking for efficiency in gas cars we should be able to make up that ground hopefully.if they had a more efficient emissions system for diesel cars they would be the way to go because without emissions they crush anything a gas car will ever do.
Gas cars do pretty good without emissions systems too.

Formula One Engine Efficiency
2014 intercooling - Page 8 - F1technical.net (3rd picture has some crazy low BSFC figures)

There are many compromises made in mass-market engines, gas or diesel, that reduce thermal efficiency.

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