Go Back   EcoModder Forum > EcoModding > Hypermiling / EcoDriver's Ed
Register
Now


Reply
 
Submit Tools LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 08-06-2008, 10:55 PM   #1 (permalink)
EcoModding Apprentice
 
gascort's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Saint Louis, MO
Posts: 198

Gascort - '93 Escort Wagon
90 day: 40.9 mpg (US)
How to use your A/C more efficiently

OR... How to P&G your A/C
I split this into 3 sections since I'm verbose.
1. Reasons to use it
2. Theory behind a/c and how it works
3. Steps you need to take

1. This is an easy method of reducing your FE losses due to A/C while retaining some of its benefits. I have to use my A/C when I'm dressed up in a shirt and tie as well as when my wife and/or baby are in the car, and I use this to keep everyone, including my wallet, happy.

2. Basic air conditioner theory: Your air conditining is operated by an engine driven compressor, then two "radiators"; a high pressure, hot one that is warmer than the outside air, and a low pressure, cold one that is cooler than outside air. Thermodynamically speaking, when the compressor does work on vaporized refrigerant to compress it into a liquid, its temperature increases. This is an adiabatic process. The high pressure refrigerant travels from the compressor to the condenser, which is in front of your car's engine-cooling radiator. Since it's now very hot, it loses energy to the outside air flowing through it. After losing energy, it travels to the inside of the car, passes through an expansion valve that allows a small amount of refrigerant to pass through. The refrigerant then enters the evaporator core, an area of low pressure. The liquid refrigerant evaporates, absorbing energy from the air inside your car, and then returns to the compressor.
Your compressor does not run all the time your car is on; it also doesn't run all the time your a/c is turned on. Most cars' expansion valves are thermostatic; they work to maintain a constant temperature within the evaporator core. If the expansion valve only allows a small amount of refrigerant through, the pressure in the high side of the system doesn't drop. A sensor detects this and disengages the clutch on your a/c compressor.
Therefore, if you do what you can to keep the evaporator core cool, you can decrease the percent of time your compressor is running.

3. What to do: Two things will allow you to keep your evaporator core cool and your compressor clutched off. First, always use the recirculate function on your climate control. Already cool, dry air flowing through the evaporator won't warm it up as much as warming fresh air from outside.
If your car doesn't have a recirculate switch, chances are that it has a "normal a/c" and a "max a/c". Use the MAX! This seems counter-intuitive, but since the recirculating a/c works better, it's labeled as such, and it's also more efficient.
Second, once you get your car to a cool enough temperature, adjust the blower fan to the lowest speed setting. You still get cold air blowing on you, but the smaller volume of air that flows through the evaporator, the cooler it will stay.
Using these two steps, you can have your a/c and afford to eat for dinner too!


(Support Ecomodder.com & get rid of these annoying ads!)      
 
__________________
"You laugh now at my recycled materials-ecomodded car. I laugh later when I see you at the fuel pump!"
The day will come (soon) when a Geo is worth more than a Hummer, except for scrap metal. http://www.scientificmethodfueleconomy.blogspot.com/
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-06-2008, 11:09 PM   #2 (permalink)
EcoModding Lurker
 
adrive7's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: DC Metro
Posts: 48

Ranger - '08 Ranger XL
90 day: 22.99 mpg (US)

Cobalt - '05 Cobalt LS

Zuma - '99 Zuma II
Send a message via AIM to adrive7
Something I have wondered about this is Max A/C means the compressor does not work as hard, but it requires another fan to kick on (which is considerably louder than the normal fan, but probably irrelevant) which requires a larger load on the alternator.

So, which wins out? A more frequent but intermittent A/C compressor or a constant draw fan? I don't know the answer.
__________________
Ohio State Baja SAE
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2008, 12:19 AM   #3 (permalink)
nut
 
Coyote X's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Southen West Virginia
Posts: 379

Metro XFi - '93 Metro XFi
90 day: 62.17 mpg (US)

DR650SE - '07 DR650SE
90 day: 53.24 mpg (US)

Moonbeam - '93 Astro Conversion
90 day: 18.88 mpg (US)
Send a message via ICQ to Coyote X Send a message via AIM to Coyote X Send a message via MSN to Coyote X Send a message via Yahoo to Coyote X Send a message via Skype™ to Coyote X
The extra noise on max you here is a vent opening up right at the blower motor. Normally you can't hear it as bad since the vent is closed and it is pulling outside air. Look in the passenger side up under the dash when you turn it on max and you can probably see the vent open up and see the fan spinning.
__________________


My Convertible Metro XFI Project build log
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2008, 08:48 AM   #4 (permalink)
EcoModding Apprentice
 
gascort's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Saint Louis, MO
Posts: 198

Gascort - '93 Escort Wagon
90 day: 40.9 mpg (US)
Quote:
Originally Posted by adrive7 View Post
Something I have wondered about this is Max A/C means the compressor does not work as hard, but it requires another fan to kick on (which is considerably louder than the normal fan, but probably irrelevant) which requires a larger load on the alternator.

So, which wins out? A more frequent but intermittent A/C compressor or a constant draw fan? I don't know the answer.
Coyote X is correct; the same fan is running, but with an interior intake open. This makes it more noisy and also blows harder since there's less resistance on the fan. I bet the blower motor uses the same amount of electricity on fresh or recirculating settings.
__________________
"You laugh now at my recycled materials-ecomodded car. I laugh later when I see you at the fuel pump!"
The day will come (soon) when a Geo is worth more than a Hummer, except for scrap metal. http://www.scientificmethodfueleconomy.blogspot.com/
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2008, 12:39 PM   #5 (permalink)
EcoModding Apprentice
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Richmond, VA
Posts: 115

The Truck - '02 Ram 1500 SLT Sport
90 day: 19.8 mpg (US)

The Van - '00 Odyssey EX
90 day: 19.33 mpg (US)
Quote:
Originally Posted by gascort View Post
Coyote X is correct; the same fan is running, but with an interior intake open. This makes it more noisy and also blows harder since there's less resistance on the fan. I bet the blower motor uses the same amount of electricity on fresh or recirculating settings.
I was wondering about the blower energy usage between normal/max. On many vehicles the outside air intake is in the cowl area at the base of the windshield where there is an aerodynamic high pressure at highway speeds that might "assist" the air flow into the cabin. On Max or recirculate you're drawing air from cabin pressure and accelerating it back into cabin pressure.

OTOH most blowers are squirrel-cage fans that are very efficient at operating with suction on the intake, and on normal mode the blower is actually attempting to pressurize the cabin (unless it's very leaky or has a designed pressure relief) by cramming outside air inside. My truck has a pressure relief system on the rear cab wall that blows air out in front of the bed on normal mode so my blower doesn't blow harder on MAX it's just noisier.

I was interested to see this article since I have had my own thoughts on the subject, but come to find out everything you recommend I already do. I go one step further and actually turn off my compressor when I'm in MAX at low blower setting and have reached a comfortably cold temperature. My truck allows me to have the compressor on or off in any given setting but if someone's vehicle doesn't they could tap a switch in series with the refrigerant pressure switch circuit (the switch that detects the high-limit pressure between the condenser and the expansion valve that shuts off the compressor until the pressure drops) to manually turn off the compressor without being able to force it on. Which brings up one more point: if you want to be cool but not cold, do not turn up the temperature dial as it merely blends hot air into the conditioned air. Cycle the A/C on/off to make it warmer than the low-blower MAX A/C would normally make it to minimize compressor operation.

Additional point: When starting your car after it has sat in the sun lower the windows with the A/C on normal mode to pull the interior temp down. Outside air is cooler than cabin air at this point so normal is more efficient, plus it pushes the superheated cabin air out the windows. This might only take a minute or less before you feel cold air at the vents, at which point you can switch to MAX and roll the windows up.
__________________
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2008, 04:33 PM   #6 (permalink)
EcoModding Apprentice
 
gascort's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Saint Louis, MO
Posts: 198

Gascort - '93 Escort Wagon
90 day: 40.9 mpg (US)
Quote:
Originally Posted by MechEngVT View Post
Which brings up one more point: if you want to be cool but not cold, do not turn up the temperature dial as it merely blends hot air into the conditioned air. Cycle the A/C on/off to make it warmer than the low-blower MAX A/C would normally make it to minimize compressor operation.
Excellent point: If your temp selector is at all off of the coldest setting, your heater control valve allows hot coolant into your heater core. Bad!!!

My wife's car has electric dual zone climate control. I hate it. Sometimes it gets colder than it was trying to get, so it turns on the heater to compensate, or vice versa in the winter it will turn on the a/c.
My wife and I always fight because in the winter she likes it warm, so she turns up the passenger side temperature. This makes the heat run on the right and the a/c run on the left - super inefficient and freezes the driver! I tell her to use a blanket!

Also, good point on open window usage in the first minute or two. Another thing to add is to use a reflective sun shade (I do even in the winter to keep the steering wheel cool and keep stuff from melting/fading) and to park facing South or toward wherever the sun will be if you have the option. Combining the reflective sun shade used properly and a cracked window or sunroof can drop the temp inside by 30F, and the temp of the steering wheel/seats by 50F.
After I remove the trim pieces that my roof rack used to fit in and fill with Bondo, I'm painting my whole roof a more reflective color. Probably white, but maybe, after seeing Johnny Mullet's transmission, ..... Kentucky Chrome
__________________
"You laugh now at my recycled materials-ecomodded car. I laugh later when I see you at the fuel pump!"
The day will come (soon) when a Geo is worth more than a Hummer, except for scrap metal. http://www.scientificmethodfueleconomy.blogspot.com/
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2008, 10:24 PM   #7 (permalink)
Fear the Mullet!
 
Johnny Mullet's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Ashtabula, Ohio
Posts: 1,006

Christine - '98 Metro Base
90 day: 58.85 mpg (US)

Black Betty - '95 1500 4X4
90 day: 18.56 mpg (US)
Send a message via AIM to Johnny Mullet Send a message via MSN to Johnny Mullet
The "Kentucky Chrome" looks real nice when it is first applied, but after time it dulls and fades to an almost white color. I would go with white.
__________________
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2008, 11:36 PM   #8 (permalink)
Boxhead
 
whokilledthejams's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Fredonia, NY
Posts: 275

Boxy Brown - '04 xB
90 day: 36.17 mpg (US)
Send a message via AIM to whokilledthejams
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Mullet View Post
The "Kentucky Chrome" looks real nice when it is first applied, but after time it dulls and fades to an almost white color. I would go with white.
Haha, around here, we call it Brocton Chrome, as in Brocton, NY-- the most ass-backwards of ass-backwards rural hell holes.

To add to the discussion, I had really good results pulsing the AC on recirculate last weekend-- I got 37mpg, my best tank yet, despite a lot of highway miles. Of course, I've also been neutral coasting more, and EOC'ing slightly more, to that helps too. I also did a lot of idling while trying to revive and jump my girlfriend's Chrysler (it's as big as a whale!), so I probably could have done better, actually.

I run the AC on recirc until it's comfortably cool, then turn it off, with the fan still running. When I start to get warm again, I turn it back on.
__________________
  Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
A/C Recirc trikkonceptz EcoModding Central 5 07-31-2008 10:49 AM
Better fuel economy with windows cracked, or A/C? dann_04 General Efficiency Discussion 3 07-31-2008 12:26 AM
Electric A/c conversion lovemysan EcoModding Central 10 07-21-2008 09:46 PM
Insulating cold a/c lines? CHEGAI EcoModding Central 5 06-03-2008 05:57 PM
It's not just the A/C tasdrouille General Efficiency Discussion 4 04-18-2008 12:57 AM




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.2.0 RC5
All content copyright EcoModder.com