Go Back   EcoModder Forum > EcoModding > Hybrids
Register Now
 Register Now
 

View Poll Results: How do you feel about hybrid SUVs?
Position #1 12 22.22%
Position #2 17 31.48%
Somewhere in between, possibly a wash 21 38.89%
Undecided 4 7.41%
Voters: 54. You may not vote on this poll

Reply  Post New Thread
 
Submit Tools LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 12-12-2007, 01:37 AM   #11 (permalink)
MechE
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Bay Area
Posts: 1,151

The Miata - '01 Mazda MX-5 Miata
Thanks: 0
Thanked 21 Times in 18 Posts
First, I haven't read the entire thread yet...

Second, I'm the one with position #1 - but allow me to explain (I think I have good reason) as it took awhile for me to get used to this concept....


Right now, a lot of people thing caring for the environment is a good idea -- especially when worded that way. At the same time, right now - only a few are actually willing to do something about it. My case for example - I hang dry all my clothing. Clothing lasts longer and I don't use gobs of energy to heat the house I'm cooling while destroying my clothing in a tumble oven. My mother doesn't like that - but she doesn't live with me.

So apply that to cars. We can not change what the masses want to buy. You can either disagree with that completely, or cash in. Either way, someone will step up weather or not you are willing to. So, the best alternative is not to change the people - we know that's incredibly hard to do. Instead, lets change the product. If they can still have the freaking massive deathtrap of "safety" AND cut back on fuel consumption - GREAT! But weather or not you think it's irresponsible - that doesn't change anything. The only people that have power to change new car trends are the people that buy new cars.

So while they're driving in their hybrid SUVs, they are exposed to the idea. It works its way into the status quo. It becomes acceptable outside of the California eco nut and that weird guy from Florida that hang dries all of his clothing.

------
SECOND HALF

So these larger cars seem to be the bread and butter of auto mfr's. At least, it seems that way given the higher prices and that SUVs make up 50% of the US market share. So, let them put it into SUVs. Let them make gobs and GOBs of money off of it. Then let them further develop it, so that it will be in every econobox 20 years down the road. Yes, I realize trickle down eco. only "works" in retrospect - it's not predicable :/



I also uphold the idea that the all or nothing practice will result is neither.

Of course, my car still gets more MPG than your hybrid SUV

__________________
Cars have not created a new problem. They merely made more urgent the necessity to solve existing ones.
  Reply With Quote
Alt Today
Popular topics

Other popular topics in this forum...

   
Old 12-12-2007, 03:47 AM   #12 (permalink)
Pokémoderator
 
cfg83's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Southern California
Posts: 5,864

1999 Saturn SW2 - '99 Saturn SW2 Wagon
Team Saturn
90 day: 40.49 mpg (US)
Thanks: 439
Thanked 530 Times in 356 Posts
Hello -

I went for the wash. It is a greenwashing, like #2, but the technology is being implemented and worked out by people that I think would otherwise buy SUVs. Hopefully, it will migrate down to smaller cars like the Honda Fit (as rumored).

CarloSW2
__________________

What's your EPA MPG? Go Here and find out!
American Solar Energy Society
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2007, 12:10 PM   #13 (permalink)
Depends on the Day
 
RH77's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Kansas City Area
Posts: 1,761

Teggy - '98 Acura Integra LS
Sports Cars
90 day: 32.74 mpg (US)

IMA - '10 Honda Insight EX
Team Honda
90 day: 34.76 mpg (US)

Tessie - '06 Acura TSX Base
90 day: 28.2 mpg (US)
Thanks: 31
Thanked 41 Times in 35 Posts
Somewhere in the Middle

Complicatated Situation, oversimplified below...

I think that this market share is going to buy the SUV regardless. The fact that Hybrids are available in this segment helps with FE (albeit slightly number-wise, but larger percentage-wise, with less fuel consumed overall).

They still get crummy mileage. If someone is serious about FE over other concerns (unwarranted, or otherwise), then they'll choose something smaller, more efficient.

Lastly, it educates folks about hybrids, which is a good thing.

RH77
__________________
“If we knew what we were doing, it wouldn't be called research” ― Albert Einstein

_
_
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2007, 03:37 PM   #14 (permalink)
Giant Moving Eco-Wall
 
DifferentPointofView's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: The Dale, IL (or A-Dale)
Posts: 1,120

The Jeep! - '95 Jeep Grand Cherokee ZJ Laredo
90 day: 23.75 mpg (US)

The Caliber - '07 Dodge Caliber R/T
90 day: 30.6 mpg (US)

The 'Scort - '98 Ford Escort LX
Thanks: 0
Thanked 7 Times in 6 Posts
I have a question, why are they making more and more hybrid SUV's but they aren't making more and more hybrid mini-vans???
__________________


Yea.. I drive a Jeep and I'm on a fuel economy site, but you just wouldn't understand... "It's a Jeep thing!" *Jeep Wave*

Did I Use Too Many Abbreviations? Here's The Abbreviations List
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2007, 04:37 PM   #15 (permalink)
Awesomeness personified
 
AndrewJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Columbia, MO
Posts: 642

Harold - '94 Honda Civic CX
90 day: 54.51 mpg (US)

Margot - '08 Surly Big Dummy
Thanks: 0
Thanked 28 Times in 18 Posts
Send a message via AIM to AndrewJ
Because nobody willingly goes out and buys a minivan.
"Guys! Check out my awesome new Caravan!"
__________________
"I got 350 heads on a 305 engine. I get 10 miles to the gallon. I ain't got no good intentions." - The Drive By Truckers.

  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to AndrewJ For This Useful Post:
Mustang Dave (03-09-2014)
Old 12-12-2007, 05:12 PM   #16 (permalink)
EcoModding Apprentice
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 152

The Mighty Mira - '92 Daihatsu Mira
90 day: 61.32 mpg (US)
Thanks: 0
Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts
Maybe there's room for a position #5: Hybrid SUVs are a bad thing because there should be MORE SUVs.

Let me explain: the next extended fuel price shock causes SUVs to end up going back to China as scrap because no one can afford to run them. This causes the common perception to change - people start thinking of SUVs as a stupid investment with no resale value. Then the average person becomes envious of those who can travel at or near highway speeds while still being able to feed a family, especially without getting wet in the rain. And everyone starts talking and learning about FE, industry starts sating public demand, etc.

__________________
"Every body perseveres in its state of being at rest or of moving uniformly straight forward, except insofar as it is compelled to change its state by force impressed." - Isaac Newton
  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to newtonsfirstlaw For This Useful Post:
MobilOne (03-14-2017)
Old 12-12-2007, 08:01 PM   #17 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Peakster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Regina SK Canada
Posts: 407

Red Jeep Patriot - '07 Jeep Patriot
90 day: 25.14 mpg (US)

Beige Ford Ranger - '95 Ford Ranger XLE
Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
I voted somewhere in between because no matter what, people are going to buy SUVs. There's just something about buying 2+ tons of steel that's equipped to drive across arctic tundra that seems to make people feel special (I'd drive one if it didn't send me to the poor house. Remember I almost bought a Jeep instead of the Geo).

Driving a vehicle that goes from 15 MPG to one that gets 20 MPG is an immense fuel savings... much more than a car that goes from 35mpg to 40mpg. It would be lovely if a person made an SUV that got 50 MPG, but that ain't gonna happen.
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2007, 08:23 PM   #18 (permalink)
EcoModding Apprentice
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 152

The Mighty Mira - '92 Daihatsu Mira
90 day: 61.32 mpg (US)
Thanks: 0
Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peakster View Post
Driving a vehicle that goes from 15 MPG to one that gets 20 MPG is an immense fuel savings... much more than a car that goes from 35mpg to 40mpg. It would be lovely if a person made an SUV that got 50 MPG, but that ain't gonna happen.
Two points:
1. A hybrid (even mild hybrid) SUV, driven at low speed pulse and glide, should be able to achieve 50mpg. The catch is, it would have to be driven at 60kph or less. Aeromodded, slightly more, maybe 70kph.

2. mpg is a terrible measure of fuel economy, for that very reason. An inverse of that measure is a lot better (e.g. gallons per 100miles) or l/100km doesn't have that problem.

e.g.
15mpg = 15.68l/100km
20mpg = 11.76l/100km
difference = 3.92 l/100km

35mpg = 6.72l/100km
40mpg = 5.88l/100km
difference = 0.84l/100km

Edit: It does have the problem that 1l/100km difference is not as significant the lower you go. It does have the advantage of improvements being understated rather than overstated. e.g. my bicycle achieves infinity mpg ftw! lol lol kthxbye

I suppose what we need is a logarithmic measure, like decibels. But since you'd have to do log conversions to determine fuel use over a certain distance, it would be useless for that.
__________________
"Every body perseveres in its state of being at rest or of moving uniformly straight forward, except insofar as it is compelled to change its state by force impressed." - Isaac Newton

Last edited by newtonsfirstlaw; 12-12-2007 at 08:31 PM..
  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to newtonsfirstlaw For This Useful Post:
Ecky (04-08-2017)
Old 12-12-2007, 10:51 PM   #19 (permalink)
ECO-Evolution
 
Lazarus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Central Texas
Posts: 1,482

Iron Horse (retired) - '97 Iron horse Intrepid

Ninja - '08 Kawasaki 250R
90 day: 76.23 mpg (US)
Thanks: 17
Thanked 44 Times in 33 Posts
This shows that the SUV's are in demand despite high gas prices so anything that will bring the mileage up the better. I don't think the consumer will change their buying choices.

Quote:
The numbers for large SUVs rose nearly 6 percent in the first quarter of 2007, and the April figures were up 25 percent from April 2006, according to automakers' statistics provided by Edmunds.com, an automotive research Web site.
The average price of gas at this time was $2.80 ish.
__________________
"Judge a person by their questions rather than their answers."


Last edited by Lazarus; 12-12-2007 at 11:09 PM..
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2007, 11:41 PM   #20 (permalink)
Depends on the Day
 
RH77's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Kansas City Area
Posts: 1,761

Teggy - '98 Acura Integra LS
Sports Cars
90 day: 32.74 mpg (US)

IMA - '10 Honda Insight EX
Team Honda
90 day: 34.76 mpg (US)

Tessie - '06 Acura TSX Base
90 day: 28.2 mpg (US)
Thanks: 31
Thanked 41 Times in 35 Posts
For those that NEED them...

Maybe consumers aren't the one's helping the most here...

For that small percentage that actually require those vehicles, this seems to be a good trend. (I see public service vehicles, requiring 4WD and extra ground clearance, that do quite a bit of stop-and-go driving in the interim -- such a rural Sheriff/Police vehicles (e.g. Tahoe), or other rural/rough-terrain applications, to benefit the most). Will these enter fleet service, or is durability and longevity a concern?

The trend lately has been in the in the Medium-Duty Truck (Ambulance, Delivery, Military) and Transit Bus segment. With a different architecture, these generally help a Diesel or Alternatively Powered vehicle get started with an electric motor or hydraulic pressure, and start the engine at the proper time during the FE-critical standing start scenario. Semi-trucks are next on the list.

RH77

__________________
“If we knew what we were doing, it wouldn't be called research” ― Albert Einstein

_
_
  Reply With Quote
Reply  Post New Thread


Thread Tools




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.5.2
All content copyright EcoModder.com