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Old 06-11-2008, 11:30 AM   #11 (permalink)
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I was wondering the same thing the ECU or Carb must be adjusted to burn leaner, because the Air/HydroCarbon Fuel/Hydrogen burns more efficiently.

They sell HHO Map sensor adjustment devices like this:
eBay Controller

I Think the more expensive probably have them included.

What's weird is they all seem to miss the mark as to why they save gas. they are not running off Hydrogen, the hydrogen enhances the Hydrocarbon Fuel/Air Combustion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daox View Post
I've heard of a lot of people try it, but none have gotten good results from it. However, hydrogen has been proven to improve a gasoline engine's efficiency. The problem with many kits IMO is none of them allow you to retune the engine to account for the changes in combustion characteristics.

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Old 06-11-2008, 11:49 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Two potentiometers on the map sensor are not going to to squat for altering fueling maps. You need a much better system and a way of altering closed loop maps. Probably more important than fuel is that you need alter ignition timing... The whole thing really isn't that simple and I think thats why the DIYers get tripped up.

FYI, I've never built anything myself. I've just read about it.
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Old 06-11-2008, 02:39 PM   #13 (permalink)
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yeah i'm not sure about the potentiometers either.

I'm not planing on building anything either, I just think when people say that it doesn't work (like me, because you put in more energy, than what you get out), should rethink about it because of results people have.

All those satified customers can't be wrong. (maybe there ECU's recognized that timing A/F mixture can adjusted). I know Honda's do that, when higher octane fuel is used. I'm guessing the H/F/A mixture behaves like higher octane fuel. So that's why some people get good results, some don't.

I decided to look more into it and i realized the advertisements were misleading. benefits are from a changes in combustion properties, not actually using the hydrogen as a fuel...
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Old 06-12-2008, 01:20 AM   #14 (permalink)
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I seem like these diesel guys are getting great increases:

Magdrive HHO test results

More results
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Old 06-13-2008, 09:50 AM   #15 (permalink)
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I have been researching on this a lot. The reason is a local guy wants to get a grant to start his business and his primary product is HHO Kits. I have emailed him with questions and hasn't replied. Though, he has replied to my brother.

Now, my research has founf that people are installing these on OLD rundown cars. I haven't see 1 video with a new car. Of course the MAP/MAF and o2 sensors will act funny. Water vapours, will it screw up your engine and exhaust system? I'm sending this guy an email concerning this to see his replies. I'll keep you posted!
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Old 06-13-2008, 11:39 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Although there may be some merit... i just saw a video of a canister blow up!

Be careful if you do try it.
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Old 06-13-2008, 11:46 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Hello,

The basic principle of this sort of device is impossible -- it is a perpetual motion machine (if it were true!) and therefore it is bunk.

I think the OP is a Spammer...
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Old 06-13-2008, 12:38 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Niel, please read up on how the system works before making assumptions. The hydrogen is not primarily used as a fuel and is therefore not a perpetual motion machine. What happens is the hydrogen changes the combustion characteristics. More specifically it increases flame speed which increases the efficiency of the engine. This has been proven.
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Old 06-13-2008, 12:54 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Hello,

Okay, I stand corrected. But, I do know that making hydrogen through electrolysis is pretty inefficient, and depending on how much hydrogen is needed to have the desired effect -- is there a net gain of energy? IOW, does this scheme increase the overall efficiency of the engine?

[Edit: I watched the video the OP linked to, and it shows how to make hydrogen -- but how would one connect this in a controllable manner to ones vehicle? I use steam humidifiers that run on a very similar principle (They use carbon rods as electrodes) -- I'm puzzled by the need for distilled water which they then add salt to? The salt conducts electricity through the water (pure water is actually an insulator!), so it would also work fine to just use tap water. Of course, the mineral and chlorine content are going to vary...

What happens to the oxygen?

Lastly, if the device draws anywhere near 100 amps (that would be 1200watts!), this would severely load your alternator, and therefore the added load is greater than the energy released into the hydrogen -- so the gains of efficiency in combustion would have to be pretty large.]
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Old 06-13-2008, 01:06 PM   #20 (permalink)
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You would be correct there. However, the ICE is also horribly inefficient, so there is tons of room to improve. According to many sources the necessary amount of hydrogen is not much. But what is not much? Like I mentioned above, I have not tried it myself and I have not seen any proof that it absolutely does work. Hydrogen does improve efficiency. But, I have yet to see it proven that a HHO generator can be run efficiently enough to overcome its power requirements. Do I think it can be done? Yes, I do. I have heard of guys who know a LOT more than me about engine building say it works.

I also recently got this link.
http://www.ecogeek.org/content/view/1716/69/

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