It's all over but for the sweating?

[jamesqf]

Originally Posted by Arragonis

It will also be interesting it they mention how this is supposed to power German industry (steel, aluminium, cars, trains etc.) and also whether the generating infrastructure is locally made or from China.

The other half of the equation is that when energy is cheap, there is no immediate incentive not to waste it - which generally winds up being more expensive in the long run. Just for an example, say a plant manager could make changes that would save $100K/year in energy costs (at current prices), but the cost of the changes would be $500K this year. If he expects to move to another job in a few years, it's to his benefit not to make the changes, as that keeps his quarterly numbers high, even though it's worse for the company's long-term profits.

As for Germany and nuclear plants, that's just the Watermelon Party's politics of fear at work.

[freebeard]

In the USofA, you find the Telcos buying legislation to prohibit municipal broadband networks wherever they can, and then not putting it in themselves because by their metrics there's no payback. The regression of one corruption after another represents a drag on energy generation, whatever it's source. I think there is lots of room for improvement.

Solar for hot water; wind for compressed air.

[redpoint5]

Originally Posted by jamesqf

Just for an example, say a plant manager could make changes that would save $100K/year in energy costs (at current prices), but the cost of the changes would be $500K this year. If he expects to move to another job in a few years, it's to his benefit not to make the changes, as that keeps his quarterly numbers high, even though it's worse for the company's long-term profits.

Your example is exactly why 4yr term limits on the U.S. presidency causes long-term harm. The POTUS (President of the United States) has no incentive to make the country better off in the long term, and every incentive to sell the future for a quick/temporary gain. The National Debt comes to mind...

[niky]

Originally Posted by Arragonis

BBC iPlayer - Costing the Earth: Berlin's Big Gamble

Scary. But if they can make it work, as in, REALLY work, there might be some hope for us yet.

[freebeard]

Well if it doesn't work, then we're all toast.

Note to niky -- They are going on about thousand-dollar engines in the Elios thread.

[niky]

Yeah, read that but so far have nothing to add to the discussion. Not till I look around at current powertrain costs here. Been a while since I went engine shopping.

You can potentially get an engine for cheaper, but it'll lack modern emissions controls and EFI. Mitsubishi was selling a 1.5 longblock here a few years back for just $300-400 with a carburetor.

[freebeard]

OK. I thought that you'd prefer some Indian supplier over S. Korean; but I didn't want to go putting words in your mouth.

I have a 1.6 liter 'long block' sitting on the bench. I put $4500 in it years ago (it's intended for my panel van). I should have put the money in Apple stock.

[niky]

Hey, that's rodding. Arguably one of the most creative ways of wasting money ever discovered.

Indian suppliers can give great prices versus SoKor suppliers, but some SoKor companies already build in India because the cost of production at home is too high, so the point is moot.

[Arragonis]

Originally Posted by niky

Scary. But if they can make it work, as in, REALLY work, there might be some hope for us yet.

Still haven't heard it - its been a busy week

[Jyden]

Originally Posted by jamesqf

I plan to, when/if the current bunch of CFLs burn out. But since my oldest ones are early '90s vintage (so old they're not even twisty), that may be a while yet.

I honestly don't think lighting is a major part of my use, though. One fairly large load I do have that you may not is a domestic water well pump, since I'm well away from urban water systems.

But you do support my contention that it's quite possible for most people to reduce their electric (and fossil fuel) consumption significantly, without adversely affecting their quality of life. I'm sure that I could (and will, as I have time) figure out even more ways to reduce my consumption, as for instance adding solar hot water.

You can get low energy ground water pumps from Grundfoss. Even ones that run on PV panels.