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Old 04-02-2008, 01:53 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Unfortunately for us, the Flywheel on all of our cars/trucks is connected directly to the crankshaft.

We couldn't really use the kinetic energy of the flywheel without running the engine (and keeping the engine at the flywheels RPM)

It'd take some massive re-engineering to make a flywheel a useful energy storage device again.

And then (once again) there's the safety issue.

I personally don't want a 30lb. flywheel, at 3000rpm, ripping loose in my engine compartment.

That's roughly 4.75 kilowatt hours by my calculations. Anyway you cut it, that's a lot of energy to go off in an uncontrolled fashion.

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Old 04-02-2008, 03:15 AM   #12 (permalink)
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I know a lot of effort has been put into lowering reciprocating mass (i.e. pistons and rods), but does the flywheel fall into that category?

I've heard about racers putting lighter flywheels on their car for what I'm assuming is increased engine response. I'm pretty sure it raises the idle speed and hurts drivability (stalls easily), but I wonder if it could be applied to FE driving. Ideally, FE cars shouldn't idle anyways and drivability is an overcomeable handicap...I wonder what the benefits are, though.

As far as flywheels as energy storage devices...that reminds me of CD's meeting the dremel. Nothing like demonstrating the stress a flywheel endures like watching polycarbonate shatter into a billion pieces.



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Old 04-02-2008, 02:29 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Hot VWs Magazine has been doing an on-again-off-again series of articles on a "Mileage Motor." They've gotten some pretty good results. One of the first things they did was increase the rotating mass.

They didn't knock themselves out trying to keep the reciprocating masses down - their stated goal being that they want to build a motor that anybody could duplicate on a reasonable budget. But they did bolt on a heavier flywheel and an extra-heavy pulley. I'm not sure what the rationale is, but the Super Beetle they bolted the engine into was delivering 22mpg before, with the Mileage Motor it's up past 36, and they're not babying it. Either the extra rotating mass is helping, or their motor is phenomenally good and the flywheel is masking some of the gains.
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Old 04-02-2008, 03:54 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elhigh View Post
Hot VWs Magazine has been doing an on-again-off-again series of articles on a "Mileage Motor." They've gotten some pretty good results. One of the first things they did was increase the rotating mass.

They didn't knock themselves out trying to keep the reciprocating masses down - their stated goal being that they want to build a motor that anybody could duplicate on a reasonable budget. But they did bolt on a heavier flywheel and an extra-heavy pulley. I'm not sure what the rationale is, but the Super Beetle they bolted the engine into was delivering 22mpg before, with the Mileage Motor it's up past 36, and they're not babying it. Either the extra rotating mass is helping, or their motor is phenomenally good and the flywheel is masking some of the gains.
The concern is the driving style -- perhaps if you stick it on a non-EcoModder's vehicle it would help, but with the coasting we do, it may negate the gains as mentioned by Treb. Interesting project from a performance mag...

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Old 04-02-2008, 04:05 PM   #15 (permalink)
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I like the idea because I don't coast that much anymore; it's just too dang annoying. What I can use every time, P&G or not, is the ability to grab higher gears sooner. And it seems on my car the limiting factor to how low of an rpm I can lug at is flywheel mass, because if I go too low it bucks.
So is this an experiment you would consider (or have you done this before)?
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Old 04-02-2008, 10:23 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by bennelson View Post
There is some really interesting research using large flywheels as energy storage devices.
...

Now this is not a flywheel as in the thing at the end of your engine. It is a HIGH RPM device made of fancy space age stuff.
I know what you're talking about, they were going to use them to store generated electricity. When you are producing power, the flywheel accelerates, and when you want power, the flywheel runs a generator. Lots of mass and insane rpms. The bearings were either magnetic or air, can't recall :/ but its what made them possible.
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Old 04-02-2008, 10:28 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndrewJ View Post
We couldn't really use the kinetic energy of the flywheel without running the engine (and keeping the engine at the flywheels RPM)

It'd take some massive re-engineering to make a flywheel a useful energy storage device again.
I was thinking about this today and it hit me...two clutches. One between the engine and flywheel, and the other between the flywheel and driveshaft. When you want to glide or stop, disengage both To start the engine, engage the engine one. Prob have to use a hand lever or grow another leg

Consider this prior art (for any patent searches)
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Old 04-02-2008, 10:49 PM   #18 (permalink)
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More isn't better... every time you switch the engine off you strand x units of force. Then your starter has to overcome it. Normal driving adds more waste.
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Old 04-02-2008, 11:36 PM   #19 (permalink)
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two clutches

I had a '58 JD420 had two clutches on a single pedal. both on the engine one disengaged the transmission and wheels, the other disengaged the PTO power take off. one powered a hollow tube, the other powered a shaft inside the tube. push the pedal half way down the wheels stopped. push the pedal all the way down the PTO stopped. They called it live PTO. Before that guys would be driving along with their bushhog and pushin the clutch but the bushhog(flywheel) would push them right over the cliff.
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Old 04-03-2008, 07:57 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boxchain View Post
I was thinking about this today and it hit me...two clutches. One between the engine and flywheel, and the other between the flywheel and driveshaft. When you want to glide or stop, disengage both To start the engine, engage the engine one. Prob have to use a hand lever or grow another leg

Consider this prior art (for any patent searches)
That is exactly how the Ecomatic Golf worked in the 90s.

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