Go Back   EcoModder Forum > EcoModding > EcoModding Central
Register Now
 Register Now
 

Reply  Post New Thread
 
Submit Tools LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 06-16-2013, 08:40 AM   #1 (permalink)
EcoModding Alien Observer
 
suspectnumber961's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: I flitter here and there
Posts: 547

highcountryexplorer - '86 Nissan 720 KC 4x4 ST with fiberglass cap
90 day: 21.78 mpg (US)

Elroy - '03 Ford Focus ZX3 w/Zetec DOHC engine
90 day: 32.89 mpg (US)
Thanks: 6
Thanked 78 Times in 65 Posts
Arrow Lock your port?

https://www.schneier.com/blog/archiv....html#c1271436

Recent Auto Recalls Result of Multi-national Cyber Attack

Detroit – Six major automakers today held an unprecedented joint press conference to announce the result of investigations into the spate of recent recalls. GM, Ford, Fiat/Chrysler, Honda, Toyota, and Nissan met with their major electronic module suppliers Delco, Bosch, and Mitsubishi. All recently issued major recall campaigns to address rough idling, high gas consumption, and PCM (powertrain control module) failures.

Albert Darrow, chief counsel for GM, released the following:

“This week the major automakers worked diligently to understand what we now know was an cyber attack on our industry. A multi-national group, funded by oil producing and electronics manufacturing countries, engineered a virus that attacks our PCMs, causing them to overwork their output drivers until the drivers fail. What begins as poor mileage causes complete engine failure within about 4 weeks.

When we asked how this was possible, we found three critical factors. In 2012 a group of thoughtless computer science researchers in Washington and California reported that automotive systems were not protected against hackers. These results alone were irrelevant, the automobile is a closed system not connected to anything. The US Department of Transportation and international counterparts in the 1980s required that all cars include an OnBoard Diagnostics port (called OBD-II in the US and EOBD elsewhere) connected to the PCM to facilitate emissions maintenance. Several insurance companies made devices, devices not sanctioned by the auto manufacturers, which plug into the OBD-II and connect to the Internet.

Insurance companies failed to warn customers that these devices were dangerous. In fact the insurers, in the form of lower premiums, paid customers to install the devices. The government mandate for OBD-II made all cars vulnerable, creating what security researchers termed a monoculture. Government was aware of the risks caused by mandating a monoculture, but since it was only discussed in obscure security blogs the industry was unaware of it. Under the recent cyber-security regulations, the Department of Homeland Security took responsibility for protecting automobile infrastructure from cyber-attack, and they did nothing to prevent this.

We have identified over 150 million autos in the US that are vulnerable to this virus. It has spread to every dealership and emissions inspection station in the country, and there is no means to eliminate it. Any car that has been to the dealer in the last 6 months should be considered infected. All infected cars will fail in the next 3-4 months. Estimates to replace these cars begin at $3 trillion. We call upon the government, in light of their substantial fault in the matter, to institute an immediate program to compensate victims. We expect to have new cars, without the vulnerabilities, on the market within 6 months. The PCMs will be designed and built by a consortium of defense contractors; knowledgeable of the techniques needed to make computers invulnerable to such attack. Unfortunately, old PCMs cannot be retrofitted. Thank God we had an American cyber-industry available to help when this war on cars was started.”

....

You done been punked?

__________________
Carry on humans...we are extremely proud of you. ..................

Forty-six percent of Americans believe in the creationist view that God created humans in their present form at one time within the last 10,000 years. GALLUP POLL
  Reply With Quote
Alt Today
Popular topics

Other popular topics in this forum...

   
Old 06-16-2013, 10:16 AM   #2 (permalink)
Pishtaco
 
SentraSE-R's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Bay Area, California
Posts: 1,485

Mean Green Toaster Machine - '06 Scion xB
Team Toyota
90 day: 48.92 mpg (US)
Thanks: 56
Thanked 286 Times in 181 Posts
No way could this be a real story. If it were, it would have been front page news months ago.
__________________
Darrell

Boycotting Exxon since 1989, BP since 2010
Have you ever noticed that anybody driving slower than you is an idiot, and anyone going faster than you is a maniac? George Carlin
Mean Green Toaster Machine
49.5 mpg avg over 53,000 miles. 176% of '08 EPA
Best flat drive 94.5 mpg for 10.1 mi
Longest tank 1033 km (642 mi) on 10.56 gal = 60.8 mpg
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-16-2013, 11:21 AM   #3 (permalink)
herp derp Apprentice
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Lawrence, KS
Posts: 1,049

Saturn-sold - '99 saturn sc1
Team Saturn
90 day: 28.28 mpg (US)

Yukon - '03 GMC Yukon Denali
90 day: 13.74 mpg (US)
Thanks: 43
Thanked 331 Times in 233 Posts
that, and i cant think how failing output drivers would result in engine failure.
i was thinking, maybe running lean. but in the last year i repaired (after about several hours worth of diag) a 98 chevy express van, that had failing injector drivers. after a different pcm, engine ran fine
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-16-2013, 07:41 PM   #4 (permalink)
Human Environmentalist
 
redpoint5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Oregon
Posts: 12,458

Acura TSX - '06 Acura TSX
90 day: 24.19 mpg (US)

Lafawnda - CBR600 - '01 Honda CBR600 F4i
90 day: 47.32 mpg (US)

Big Yeller - Dodge/Cummins - '98 Dodge Ram 2500 base
90 day: 21.82 mpg (US)

Mazda CX-5 - '17 Mazda CX-5 Touring
90 day: 26.68 mpg (US)

Chevy ZR-2 - '03 Chevrolet S10 ZR2
90 day: 17.14 mpg (US)

Model Y - '24 Tesla Y LR AWD
Thanks: 4,212
Thanked 4,390 Times in 3,364 Posts
Yet another drive-by conspiracy theory by Suspect.

If this were true, why hasn't everyone been made aware.

If this were true, my car will not last more than 4 more months.

Why does the article say that vehicles need to be replaced, rather than the "vulnerable" PCM?

I have a progressive Snapshot device in the ODB2 port, and it does not modify the PCM.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I would think many PCMs would use ROM (Read Only Memory), so the programming could not be altered once the chip was burned. Even if EEPROM were used, it would require a reflash and reprogramming to "infect" the vehicle.
__________________
Gas and Electric Vehicle Cost of Ownership Calculator







Give me absolute safety, or give me death!
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-16-2013, 08:06 PM   #5 (permalink)
NightKnight
 
NachtRitter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Placerville, CA
Posts: 1,594

RippinRoo - '05 Subaru Legacy Wagon 2.5 GT
Subaru
90 day: 21.16 mpg (US)

Helga - '00 Volkswagen Jetta TDI
TEAM VW AUDI Group
Diesel
90 day: 53.91 mpg (US)

Olga - '03 Volkswagen Jetta Wagon
90 day: 46.24 mpg (US)
Thanks: 303
Thanked 311 Times in 186 Posts
<sigh> ... it is one of a set of potential movie plots, requested on April 1st by Bruce Schneier... see Schneier on Security: Sixth Annual Movie-Plot Threat Contest Semifinalists. Not a true story.

Quote:
Originally Posted by suspectnumber961 View Post
...
You done been punked?
This might've been a clue... ?
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-16-2013, 08:33 PM   #6 (permalink)
kir_kenix
 
kir_kenix's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Emerson, Ne
Posts: 207

1997 Chevy s10 - '97 Chevy S10 WT
Pickups
90 day: 32.71 mpg (US)

1997 Ford Escort - '97 Ford Escort LX
Team Ford
Last 3: 32.29 mpg (US)

Razz - '97 Yamaha Razz
90 day: 109.57 mpg (US)

2004 Ford F250 - '04 Ford F250 XLT
90 day: 16.32 mpg (US)

2000 S10 4.3 - '00 Chevrolet S10 W/T
Pickups
90 day: 19.4 mpg (US)

2010 corilla - '10 Toyota Corolla LE
90 day: 32.82 mpg (US)

'Yota - '22 Toyota Rav4 LE
90 day: 37.41 mpg (US)
Thanks: 15
Thanked 30 Times in 19 Posts
We actually talked about this in an anti-terrorism briefing that was put on by the Nebraska TAG. It was a brainstorming session where we considered many different forms of terrorism/cyber terrorism. Someone at the conference was a GM technician, and he basically said that it was basically impossible to remotely damage/reprogram any of the ECU's currently in use. He said there would be a way bigger/realistic chance of something like OnStar getting hacked and inconveniencing people for a short period of time. I think this topic never made it to the "big board" that was discussed later on.
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2013, 10:28 AM   #7 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Phantom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Independence, KY
Posts: 603

Blue Meanie - '02 Volkswagon Golf TDI
TEAM VW AUDI Group
90 day: 48.52 mpg (US)

Wife's car - '05 WV Passat TDI

Rudy - '94 Chevy C2500
Thanks: 89
Thanked 47 Times in 44 Posts
HAHA this is stupid even if the devices could send data to the PCM they would have to pull the current tune as there could be 20 different versions of based on gears updates injectors or just a different program layout. Thats all for the same engine trans combo.

If it did that it would have to locate the address of what it wants to change know the offset if it is 8bit or 16bit. After it is changed correct the checksum then have the car in the run position with the engine off for 1-5min depending on PCM speed.

If that happens to fix it all you need to do is reburn the stock tune.

Burning out the injector drivers LOL I think people would know something is up when the car is smoking or the exhaust starts dripping gas from running a max fueling the whole time.

__________________
I move at the speed of awesome.


"It's not rocket surgery!" -MetroMPG
  Reply With Quote
Reply  Post New Thread






Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.5.2
All content copyright EcoModder.com