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Old 10-09-2010, 09:28 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Lupo 3L

Being one of few people to own a lupo 3L with English as my first language and one of around 8 people in the UK to own one I though i should put up some information about the car.

Rather than try to cover everything myself i will post up the VW self study programme. This document is really nice and clear and covers all the main areas of interest. I can then focus on any other details later.

This is quite picture heavy so i apologise to anyone on a slow connection


EDIT:

All links working again

Here are some more 3L related study guides some of them are referenced in the document 218 as posted in images.

Same as images
SSP_218.PDF

Body
SSP_216.PDF

Electronic manual gearbox
SSP_221.PDF

The 1.2l and 1.4l TDI engines
SSP_223.PDF

The electro-mechanical power steering system (not fitted to my car)
SSP_225.PDF

Here is a a crash test video of the 3L. The test was undertaken by PMG Technologies Canada.

(may require VLC player to watch)
Video of 3L crash test














Last edited by Unheard; 10-14-2010 at 01:26 AM..
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Old 10-09-2010, 09:29 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Old 10-09-2010, 09:30 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Old 10-09-2010, 09:31 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Old 10-09-2010, 10:31 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Way cool. I want one.

How much do they cost?
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Old 10-09-2010, 11:54 PM   #6 (permalink)
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You can find them from anywhere between 2000 EUR to 8000 EUR
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Old 10-10-2010, 01:18 AM   #7 (permalink)
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They are not made any more, about 30,000 3L's were produced. You can only get them second hand. They obviously appealed to people that wanted to rack up the miles so you do see them with quite high mileage but for a diesel that's not such an issue and it parallels the 1.4TDIs you find in the UK. the auto system ensures it has smooth gear changes and a the car is so light there will never be a huge load on the engine.

All parts that i can get through VW UK should be available at VW USA dealers special order form Germany. I did hear that you can no longer get the alloy bonnets but i have not confirmed that. Such a part could be replaced with carbon fibre anyway.

They are not without faults. I got my one for a steal at £500, it was already imported by the previous owner so all mods needed to be UK legal were done but it did have a hydraulics leak. It was still drivable but i have now take it off the road so i can sort it.

The hydraulics is some what the achilles heel in this car. when they work they work like a dream but they are prone to leaks. Obviously there is a slight design issue with them. I know if i go to VW they will screw me as its not the culture to repair parts. That is all well and good but the parts for this are costly. I have taken the unit off the car and now. looking at it the repair does not appear as if it will be that hard and i am sure i can do something to ensure its a better seal than from factory. I have also finally tracked down a guy in Germany that will do a re-con on them if need. i send the part he just swaps your parts for ones he has already sorted all at a fraction of the cost of VW.

The main hurdle i have found was just lack of information in English. I have spent a long time with google chrome using the translate function to get all the info i can. Its a very unusual car so even in Europe there is not a huge amount of information on certain things but i think i have enough now to get everything sorted.

The whole gear shift system never made it into any other cars as VW moved on to DSG but what was learnt form the 3L was the starting block for making DSG a workable reality. Noting like the 3L will ever be replicated again and sold to the consumer it was basically a concept car that made it into production as a real world eco R&D project. I think it was also a way of achieving world records and awards. The VAG group do this sort of thing from time to time in different areas the Bugatti Veyron is another example or a car that will never be replicated.

Every Veyron sells at a loss and i would not be surprised if the 3L was the same. What they lose in return on investment from each car is more than made up by the insight and real world experience that it gained. Many things form the 3L went on to be implemented into next generation VWs such as the injectors.

Its my belief that VW still have some of the most advanced research insight into making eco cars and as it stands their current 2010 blumotion is using a 1.2TDI simalar to that in the 3L. Most car manufacturers are jumping heavily into hybrids without the long term insight that VW has.
once VW comes to adoption hybrid technology they will be way in advance over the competition as they are achieving such good MPG on standard engines.
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Old 10-10-2010, 10:43 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unheard View Post
They are not without faults.

The hydraulics is some what the achilles heel in this car.
The whole gear shift system never made it into any other cars as VW moved on to DSG but what was learnt form the 3L was the starting block for making DSG a workable reality.
Dunno if your reference "hydraulics" also meant to include the auto transmission, but the Lupo and A2 3L versions have been plagued with transmission problems.

Quote:
Noting like the 3L will ever be replicated again and sold to the consumer it was basically a concept car that made it into production as a real world eco R&D project.
The new Polo Bluemotion comes very close in fuel consumption (3.3 L/100 km versus 3L/100km for the Lupo), though it's a lot bigger and far safer.
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Old 10-10-2010, 12:27 PM   #9 (permalink)
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I like the LUPO (and Arosa) especially the TDi and Lupo 3L. A little bit like the BlueMotion Polo the extra cost of a 3L over a 'normal' TDi didn't seem worth it at the time. I passed on a Lupo TDi about 5 or so years ago, only 18 months old but 140K miles - seemed high to me.

The Citroen C1 with a combined MPG of just under 70 looks like a reasonable continuation of the theme. They are light though (890 kg compared to 1055 for a Ford KA). Although it doesn't have an auto gearbox and isn't as well made overall as the Lupo / Arosa - bits just apparently wear out or fall off making it tricky to consider one used.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Honest John
Water leaks into load area via extractor vent. Have also been water leaks into load area and rear via misfitted rear door and hatch seals or rear light seals. More leaks reported through radiop aerial seal and passenger door seal.

'Whirring whine' from 1.4HDI may be failing timing belt tensioner, which is a roller bearing device like the idler pulley, but with a reddish rubber/nylon damper. Gates cambelt kits include this part. Wise also to replace waterpump which it driven by the timing belt.

Water pump failures common at about 3 years old.

One report of a transmission oil leak on an Aygo (same car).

Exhaust back boxes may only last 2 years before rusting through.

Reports of leaking waterpumps on 1.0 petrol engines.

Clutches seem to let in water, leading to surface corrosion and premature wear. Can last as little as two and a half years. TSB to replace 180mm clutches with 190mm clutches. See recalls.

Rear wheel brake cylinders prone to failure. One case after 4 years and 4,000 miles. Another just 2 months from new.

On 5 door models the glue holding the rear door windows to the hinge eventually fails and the windows fall out.

Well used key operated drivers door and boot doorlocks may only last just over 3 years.

Cat converters may also fail after 2 - 3 years.

Reports of power steering failures at 3 - 4 years old, costing £650 for a new motor, though may have been caused by drivers burning out the motor by holding it on lock.
I'm tempted but I feel I would end up 'debugging' it quite a lot before it was reliable.
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Old 10-10-2010, 01:26 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by euromodder View Post
Dunno if your reference "hydraulics" also meant to include the auto transmission, but the Lupo and A2 3L versions have been plagued with transmission problems.
This is not really just a 3L problem many lupos have transmission problems as do the mk4 polos. Its mainly due to oil leaks. My sport is on 63k miles and been driven ard on the gears yet the transmission is fine i have looked after it and expect it to still be sweet past 100k. The transmission issues on the 3L will obviously be exacerbated form a failing with the hydraulics. The standard VWs also suffered from failing gearboxes due to the very very prevalent failing pedal box. I was aware of this issue with the car so when it happened to my sport i knew exactly what was happening and sorted the car before putting any strain on the box.

Quote:
Originally Posted by euromodder View Post
The new Polo Bluemotion comes very close in fuel consumption (3.3 L/100 km versus 3L/100km for the Lupo), though it's a lot bigger and far safer.
That was exactly my point VW will never make a car that is such like a concept car. They did not rush to market with another car like the 3L after it finished production. Instead the blumotion range is far closer to the standard models gaining the most efficiency without the need for radical changes, Its proves just how they have made the standard models efficient in the first place. The lupo as a base car was not the most obvious choice for an aerodynamic car so it amazes me what they managed to achieve with it.

In reality the Polo Bluemotion still cannot achieve the return the 3L does as the 3L is very capable of over 100mpg but as you say the polo is a bigger car. This is the good thing about VWs approach to eco cars they do not want to compromise and the 3L gave them the chance to see what worked and what did not in the long term.

There is no question about it there are failings with 3L but being a lupo owner prior to getting the 3L it meant i was very aware of the car. Every car has design faults but if your aware of them then its not such an issue as you can take steps to reduce faults happening or know what is in order when they happen. For all the failings there are many more plus points.

You have to keep in mind this car came out 11 years ago and many of the hydraulic problems only appear at higher mileage. My father has put many miles on each car he has had over the last 10 years and its almost expected there will be some big expense by the time they hits 100,000k - 150-000k miles and they are larger cars . Much of the issue is more VWs approach to the problems and cost of fixing them that prohibits people from getting them sorted early on when signs appear. They do not offer repairs or reconditioned units and instead demanding to replace the whole thing at vast expense as is the way with dealers. For all the things i love about VW their customer service and after-care is certainly not one of them they have a pretence but its not backed up. In the early days of owning my lupo sport i though it best to go to VW untill i the penny doped and i figured out they are fitters not mechanics. They could not detect problems that i was telling them existed
saying the car was fine. I took it to an independent all issues were found sorted and cost less than VWs diagnostics that was worthless.

Usually you can go to other garages to get cars fixed but with this transmition it was not understood. Now i have done all the research i can see how its not as complicated as it first appears to be.

VWs customer service would stop me form getting a brand new VW. If i get another VW it will always be second hand out of warranty. I undertake 90% of the required work on my cars. Nothing about the 3L worries me.

The main reason i wanted to put up information about the car is not so i can wax lyrical about it as being the perfect eco car but instead help others learn form what was achieved by VW. There is a lot of insight to be gained just from reading the self study alone. As i have the car i can hopefully answer any questions in a little more detail if anyone wishes to ask.

The 3L does not have a radical boat tail, huge air-dam or any other feature that would make it stand out as being anything other than a regular car but to the lay person yet the cd is very low.

Its sounds obvious but this car really hi-lights that doing a little to the body that works well is far more beneficial than doing a lot that is not very effective despite looking like it would be.

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