Mildred - '011 Prius T-Spirit 90 day: 45.97 mpg (US)
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Manual, Auto and Semi-Auto
Hi,
I'm thinking of swapping cars - in about 3 years (I like to plan ahead!).
One option is a FIAT Qubo which comes with a nifty 1.3 Diesel engine and is said to be capable of >65mpg (imperial). Its basically a car-derived cargo van with windows. I have a child and being able to just throw bikes into it instead of having to fit a rack is attractive.
It also has the option of a semi-auto gearbox (6speed) instead of a standard 5speed manual. I think it works similarly to the DSG box in some VWs and Audis - i.e. a manual box with hydraulics / electrickery to make it all work. It's said to be OK but I've also read reports of a similar box in a Toyota Aygo being one to avoid.
Has anyone any experience of the semi-autos and are they any use ? How do they effect FE, if at all ? Apparently this box can be used as a clutchless manual or as a full auto.
Disclaimer - Postings from this author may be total rubbish. All figures in Imperial MPG unless specified. Use at own risk. Shake before opening. Store in cool, dry place.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabriel Voisin about FWD
The system has the following merits: 1) It makes it easier to lower the centre of gravity and bring it forward. 2) It will free us from that unbelievable stupidity:a transmission shaft and tunnel between the engine in front of the driver and the driven wheels. 3) Front wheel drive will increase the interior space of the body, reduce the car's weight and diminish the cost price 4)It will annoy 320Touring by just being better .
I am just posting my jealousy of your location and ability for diesel cars to purchase.
Ever check out the 2 liter subaru diesel? That should be a gem.
I only heard sounds on video, I am in usa. It seems as nonchalant as the strong single firing 3 main boxers of yesteryear...even the rpm range.
I've read roadtests here, that they no way could reach the factory listet mpg. Best they could get wat 18 km/l, not the 22,7 km/l that the factory states.
Looking at the shape, weight etc. of the Fiat Qubo, I'dl say, that it will take a lot of hybermiling teknique to reach the stated mpg i mixed driving.
Mildred - '011 Prius T-Spirit 90 day: 45.97 mpg (US)
Thanks: 165
Thanked 238 Times in 181 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by bgd73
semi auto in a tiny car..not exactly f1 material.
NO, but I'm getting lazy and old and just want a small diesel auto or semi auto. It can drive as a flipper manual or a full auto.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bgd73
I am just posting my jealousy of your location and ability for diesel cars to purchase.
Ever check out the 2 liter subaru diesel? That should be a gem.
I only heard sounds on video, I am in usa. It seems as nonchalant as the strong single firing 3 main boxers of yesteryear...even the rpm range.
We tried the Legacy Diesel as Mrs A was considering one, she liked the idea of 4wd for the snowy journeys in the Northern parts of Scotland. The engine was very unrefined compared to other diesels we can get, lots of boom at low revs and loud hum at cruising speed. Performance was also kind of unimpressive, in fact the whole car was underwhelming compared with what we were expecting. For the same money you could have an equivalent Audi with Quattro and bling, or a Skoda Octavia 4x4 Estate with a VW/Audi platform underneath. In the end she went for a 2WD Skoda instead and avoids snow ;-)
Reports here also claim it to be thirsty (average in one test was mid 30s but most Diesels manage mid 40s). Japanese diesels tend to be a generation behind European ones IMHO - I suspect its becaue they don't sell them on the home market or in the USA, only in Europe ?
__________________
2011 Toyota Aygo Go!
Disclaimer - Postings from this author may be total rubbish. All figures in Imperial MPG unless specified. Use at own risk. Shake before opening. Store in cool, dry place.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabriel Voisin about FWD
The system has the following merits: 1) It makes it easier to lower the centre of gravity and bring it forward. 2) It will free us from that unbelievable stupidity:a transmission shaft and tunnel between the engine in front of the driver and the driven wheels. 3) Front wheel drive will increase the interior space of the body, reduce the car's weight and diminish the cost price 4)It will annoy 320Touring by just being better .
Assuming you can have absolute control over the shifting in the semi-auto box, the FE should be just about identical to a manual transmission with some extra weight. The DSG-type boxes do not have torque converters, just regular clutches that are automatically controlled for you. So no loss through the converter. The DSG boxes are generally heavier than the regular manual ones, so you do take a small hit from the extra weight.
It may not be possible to bump-start a DSG. In that case, you either do without engine-off coasting, or you resign yourself to always using the key to re-start. That could hurt your economy figures versus lots of EOC.
Fiat's semi-auto box is actually nothing like VAG's DSG gearbox. The "Dualogic" 'box used in Fiats is a robotised manual, similar to that used in Smarts and BMW's M5 and old M3, and as far as I'm aware it's a development of the gearbox that Ferrari developed for the Fiat group and was used in the "F1" Ferrari road cars, and cars like Alfa Romeo's Selespeeds.
I'd personally recommend against it, given what I've heard.
The trouble with robotised manuals is that they try to be everything for everyone, and end up being great at nothing. They're cheaper than torque converter automatics and rob less power (especially in small cars like the Qubo) but they're not as smooth and don't have a creep feature so still require you to alternate between two pedals in traffic, when a normal auto will just let you cover the brake as it creeps forward.
Compared to a manual, they're expensive (Fiat charge over £700 for theirs which is a lot on a budget car), and they offer slightly less control (and unlike a proper manual, if you're getting rough gearchanges you can't change your technique to smooth things out).
The biggest problem though is unresolved reliability. They're certainly getting better, but I remember Alfa Romeo's Selespeed models having a ridiculous amount of problems and it'd worry me slightly buying a slightly updated version.
Benefits? Well Fiat's version does have an "eco" mode but I'm unaware of how effective it is, and then of course if you do want a good mix of manual and auto, it's one of few choices available so it may be what you end up with.
Nowhere near as good as a proper dual-clutch gearbox though like the VAG ones. Most car magazines reckon that DSGs may well replace conventional manuals over the next ten years. Car mags are usually very elitist about manual gearboxes but in several tests recently they've noted that the DSG in VWs, Audis, Skodas and so on is significantly better than the manual available.
If I were you I'd be looking for a VW diesel in three years that's been fitted with a DSG.
Has anyone any experience of the semi-autos and are they any use ? How do they effect FE, if at all ? Apparently this box can be used as a clutchless manual or as a full auto.
My limited experience has been with a 2006 VW Jetta with DSG. We enjoy it, although I'd like more if it had the shifter paddles. From the perspective of FE however, VW claims better mpg than both the tiptronic auto trans as well as their standard manual trans. From a non-FE perspective, I can tell you that they shift so much faster and more accurately than even a skilled hand (and foot) can do in a standard transmissioned car. Even during rapid acceleration, the shifts are nearly imperceptible. In normal driving, the car is CVT-like in shift smoothness.
We are strongly considering a VW DSG diesel wagon as our next family truckster.
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