Manual valve body automatic transmission

[Christ]

Originally Posted by bwilson4web

I'm with Andy. You really need to understand the transmission and then run some tests.

Bob Wilson

I have SOME understanding of the automatic transmission. I also understand that not shifting my vehicle annoys the hell out of me, and a better option for FE is always a manual transmission.

What I'm working toward is understanding exactly how each part of the transmission interfaces together, and how to control it via user interface, rather than letting it do it's own thing. If it turns out that a manu-matic (that's what I'm calling it from now on) isn't the ticket, then a manual swap will probably take place... Manuals are easy though, I want something that will both challenge my skill, and teach me a new skill. You don't learn by repeating the same thing over and over.

As far as controlling my transmission's torque convertor lockup, it would have to be modified via the internals of the transmission. Hondas as early as 1980's were partially computer controlled transmissions... mine has NO electronics involved, at all. Even GM FWD's have integrated computer control for some features... mine, again, is FULLY MECHANICAL. There is no TCM, and the only electrical parts on my tranny are the neutral start switch, and the reverse indicator switch.

I know that using "performance" modifications to gain FE seems a little out of whack for most people, but some so-called performance mods have some added benefits, like better control of the vehicle they're applied to. I'm interested in finding out if this might be one of them.

Has anyone actually checked out that link that I left to see if this particular type of modification is going to get decent results in a street-only, hypermiling beast of a 3100lb van?

[ATaylorRacing]

A perfect question for me! Having drag raced since 83 I have a definate Y E S for you. My 84 Horizon broke 11 manuals until I put an automatic in it in 90. That automatic lasted almost 50,000 miles until it was plain worn out. It also had a lock up converter which I activated by a simple 12V switch since my car didn't have the proper CU for that function. The next automatic now has over 1000,000 miles on it and last year I had the fluid and filter changed, no machine flushing the easy way, but the old fashioned way. The 1st automatic had brown and smelly fluid after 25,000 miles, this tranny had like new fluid! The difference being the FMVB. Instead of the nice smooth barelly noticeable shifts during normal driving, it was more like...Bam into the next gear. You can more effectively use engine braking with it too, but in 1st gear you are freewheeling when not on the gas. I don't know if that is just due to the tranny I use or not. AND YES, I still drive on the streets and do not tow it to the track.

[ATaylorRacing]

Originally Posted by ATaylorRacing

...... The next automatic now has over 1000,000 miles.....

DUH, too many 0000s should be over 100,000 miles on it. The car has over 268,000 H A R D miles on it.

[ATaylorRacing]

As far as making a computer controlled tranny shift it would depend on the maker. I knew a guy that used double throw electric switches to control shifts on his 94 Plymouth Sundance. The tranny control computer would activate one soenoid while deactivating another to do the shifts so he rigged up his system to take control of it. As far as having smoother shifts from a FMVB you can lift off the gas slightly during shifts or lower the line pressure.

[Christ]

Originally Posted by ATaylorRacing

As far as making a computer controlled tranny shift it would depend on the maker. I knew a guy that used double throw electric switches to control shifts on his 94 Plymouth Sundance. The tranny control computer would activate one soenoid while deactivating another to do the shifts so he rigged up his system to take control of it. As far as having smoother shifts from a FMVB you can lift off the gas slightly during shifts or lower the line pressure.

This was precisely the answer I was looking for... if I could keep the shifts civil or not.

It's very difficult sometimes to jive performance minds with FE minds and get answers that really mean something.. I think sometimes it's hard to get both sides to see the benefits of each other's world of mods.

There is a walkthrough on that link that I posted earlier, and I"ve PM'd the person that created/maintains it... he's on TurboDodge.com, another forum I go to. Once I get some more information from him, it's down to finding a core trans from a local junkyard to start playing with!

Thanks everyone!

[wagonman76]

I used to have an 86 Celebrity wagon. It was a real beater. Bought it for $50, drove it for quite a few years, then junked it for $100. It was carbed, so it would run fine with no ECM power, only thing was Id have no TCC lockup. But for awhile it had a broken TV cable, so it no longer downshifted with throttle. It would run through the gears and get to 4th gear after about 10-15 mph. So I would manually shift it. As long as I let up on the throttle during shifts it was smooth. One thing I really liked about that was I could floor it in OD and it would not downshift, it would just keep going faster and it became very easy to bury the speedo. This was over 10 years ago when I was not so eco-minded. But having that option now would be nice, keeping it in OD whenever I wanted, I could get better mileage. I would think that any older GM non-electronic tranny could do that. However I read somewhere that having the TV cable out of position for any extended period can damage the trans, so I am leery of trying it with my good cars.

[malibuguy]

Originally Posted by Christ

[/B]
This was precisely the answer I was looking for... if I could keep the shifts civil or not.

It's very difficult sometimes to jive performance minds with FE minds and get answers that really mean something.. I think sometimes it's hard to get both sides to see the benefits of each other's world of mods.

There is a walkthrough on that link that I posted earlier, and I"ve PM'd the person that created/maintains it... he's on TurboDodge.com, another forum I go to. Once I get some more information from him, it's down to finding a core trans from a local junkyard to start playing with!

Thanks everyone!

geeez, i haven't been on turbododge in forever...& well i'm a mopar 3.3 guy, before anything else

[Christ]

K, so I got a few answers out of the guy that did the walkthrough...

1. I can keep the accumulator, so that will help soften shifts on it's own.

2. Keeping the line pressure down will help to soften shifts. (obviously)

3. Keep trans temps between 200-220 as best as possible (not from him, but from another reliable source I speak with most days.)

4. Governor, Kickdown, etc. are removed, as they won't function anyway.

5. Lockup in the 31TH is, in fact, electronically controlled. Jumper the two wires next to the fluid dipstick any time you want to engage it. Apparently, it's a simple solenoid, using 12vDC in and a signal wire. I sense a switch coming on.

[Formula413]

I wonder what the danger might be of adding a lockup switch to my car? I would probably only use it in third gear, and sometimes fourth to keep it from unlocking itself. But why isn't it enabled for third gear from the factory? Am I risking damage by forcing lockup in third?

[Christ]

Originally Posted by Formula413

I wonder what the danger might be of adding a lockup switch to my car? I would probably only use it in third gear, and sometimes fourth to keep it from unlocking itself. But why isn't it enabled for third gear from the factory? Am I risking damage by forcing lockup in third?

This information is speculative, and is not to be taken on authority without further research.

My best thought on lockup not occuring from the factory in all gears is that under "normal" (foot through the floor) acceleration, the transmission wouldn't have time to lockup, unlock, shift gears, lock, unlocks, shift, lock, unlock, shift, lather, rinse, repeat. It would create unnecessary wear.

Also - lockup was designed for fuel economy in highway situations (40mph+ constant speed) and to stop the neutral lift problem that plagues auto tranny vehicles.. (when you lift off the gas, it essentially freewheels, engine speed drops to idle, and then you have to re-accelerate the engine to match vehicle speed, which is a waste of work and fuel, that happens a hundred or more times over the course of a basic 20 mile trip.)

If you research a bit further into newer automatic transmissions, some mfg's are actually starting to add full lock to electronic transmissions so that every gear allows the TC to lock 1:1 w/ the engine after the "initial take off" period (any time that lock would have the engine under a desirable RPM range.)

Those things said, I seriously doubt that if you spend any time in 3rd gear, using manual lockup would hurt anything... If you're only "passing through" 3rd gear, I wouldn't bother, really, unless you have exceptionally long gears and a high-stall convertor (like 2250 or higher.)