Go Back   EcoModder Forum > EcoModding > General Efficiency Discussion
Register Now
 Register Now
 

Reply  Post New Thread
 
Submit Tools LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 11-11-2017, 01:28 PM   #21 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Earth
Posts: 4,779
Thanks: 195
Thanked 702 Times in 509 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by niky View Post
And, adjusted for inflation, you get MORE car for your money with the 2017 Civic than you did with the 1997 Accord.
Depends on what exactly you mean by more. In this case, I think "less is more" applies. It's rather like adding 100 lbs to your Sports Illustrated swimsuit model or Chippendale dancer - not something most of us would think of as an improvement :-)

  Reply With Quote
Alt Today
Popular topics

Other popular topics in this forum...

   
Old 11-11-2017, 01:42 PM   #22 (permalink)
Ecomuggler
 
Xist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Mesa, AZ
Posts: 5,228

Chorizo - '00 Honda Civic HX, baby! :D
90 day: 40.43 mpg (US)

Mid-Life Crisis Fighter - '99 Honda Accord LX
90 day: 33.7 mpg (US)
Thanks: 3,131
Thanked 885 Times in 660 Posts
100 pounds of clothing? That seems excessive.
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-11-2017, 04:04 PM   #23 (permalink)
Permanent Lurker
 
seifrob's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Czechoslovakia (sort of), Europe
Posts: 240

Dáčenka - '10 Dacia / Renault Logan MCV 1.5 dCi (X90 k9k)
90 day: 42.53 mpg (US)
Thanks: 80
Thanked 145 Times in 54 Posts
This comes a bit late, but still:
from fiat 500 article at driving.ca:


and from mini article at motoringfile.com:

  Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to seifrob For This Useful Post:
freebeard (11-12-2017), wdb (11-12-2017), Xist (11-11-2017)
Old 11-11-2017, 04:30 PM   #24 (permalink)
Duck duck duck
 
RedDevil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Nieuwegein, the Netherlands
Posts: 2,144

Red Devil - '11 Honda Insight Elegance
Team Honda
90 day: 57.4 mpg (US)

It - '09 Hyundai I10 Active Cool
Team Hyundai
90 day: 30.67 mpg (US)
Thanks: 767
Thanked 848 Times in 545 Posts
Would be tough to reverse-park that Mini towards the other Mini, as you would not be able to see it!

But these graphs don't exactly show the growth of cars per se. Just the inflation of cars bearing a certain type name.

I had an '85 Civic. When I got a lift in an older Civic that was a completely different car.
Then I got aboard an '82 Accord I recognised a lot from my car.

Honda did not increase the size of the Civic at that time.
They downsized (and seriously restyled) the Accord and rebadged it Civic.

Volkswagen's Golf used to be their smallest car just as the Beetle it replaced.
Then they introduced the Polo to have a smaller car.
The current Polo is already a lot bigger than the original Golf, so they introduced even smaller cars like the Lupo, which got replaced by the Brazilian Fox and even smaller Up!.

So as the models grow, smaller ones are introduced to fill the void their growth creates.

Honda's Accord has all but outgrown the Dutch market and is rarely sold. The sub-Civic Jazz (Fit) may be their best seller here. The Legend is long gone and forgotten.
__________________
2011 Honda Insight + HID, LEDs, UG, partial LGB, extra brake pad return springs, neutral wheel alignment, 44/42 PSI (air), PHEV light (inop).
lifetime FE over 0.1 GigaMeter or 69 KiloMile


Last edited by RedDevil; 11-11-2017 at 04:41 PM..
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2017, 01:58 AM   #25 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Earth
Posts: 4,779
Thanks: 195
Thanked 702 Times in 509 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by RedDevil View Post
So as the models grow, smaller ones are introduced to fill the void their growth creates.
Except that the new "small" models are still bigger than the original model, E.g. the first generation ('70s) Civic: 146.9 x 59.25 x 52.25 inches, 1,500 lbs (hatchback), vs the Fit: 157.4 x 65.9 x 60.0 inches, 2,390 lb.
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2017, 03:01 AM   #26 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
freebeard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: northwest of normal
Posts: 8,766
Thanks: 1,903
Thanked 2,869 Times in 2,242 Posts
Quote:
This one tells the story. Even though people may have turned into indistinct blobs of protoplasm, our skeletal structure is still the same. So things like the H-point and sight lines are unchanged.

I still think the VW Beetle is right-sized for humans.
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2017, 04:02 AM   #27 (permalink)
Duck duck duck
 
RedDevil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Nieuwegein, the Netherlands
Posts: 2,144

Red Devil - '11 Honda Insight Elegance
Team Honda
90 day: 57.4 mpg (US)

It - '09 Hyundai I10 Active Cool
Team Hyundai
90 day: 30.67 mpg (US)
Thanks: 767
Thanked 848 Times in 545 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by jamesqf View Post
Except that the new "small" models are still bigger than the original model, E.g. the first generation ('70s) Civic: 146.9 x 59.25 x 52.25 inches, 1,500 lbs (hatchback), vs the Fit: 157.4 x 65.9 x 60.0 inches, 2,390 lb.
Yes, because if the new small cars were built like the old ones they would not be allowed on the road.
Also our expectations have changed. Even in a 'cheap' car we want A/C, stereo, power windows, adjustable seats with headrests, power to get to 100 mph, ...
__________________
2011 Honda Insight + HID, LEDs, UG, partial LGB, extra brake pad return springs, neutral wheel alignment, 44/42 PSI (air), PHEV light (inop).
lifetime FE over 0.1 GigaMeter or 69 KiloMile

  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to RedDevil For This Useful Post:
wdb (11-12-2017)
Old 11-12-2017, 01:05 PM   #28 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
freebeard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: northwest of normal
Posts: 8,766
Thanks: 1,903
Thanked 2,869 Times in 2,242 Posts
Like this?



Real race economy cars don't have doors.
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2017, 02:15 PM   #29 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Earth
Posts: 4,779
Thanks: 195
Thanked 702 Times in 509 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by RedDevil View Post
Also our expectations have changed. Even in a 'cheap' car we want A/C, stereo, power windows, adjustable seats with headrests, power to get to 100 mph, ...
I'd be surprised if a modern stereo (not "infotainment" system*) isn't lighter than a '70s radio, even without the 8-track tape player. Put one in the Miata a couple of months ago: weighs about a pound, and instead of a box of 8-track or cassette tapes, or even CDs, I can put hundreds of disks worth of audio on something the size of my thumbnail.

Same applies to most of the rest. Given modern materials & engineering, just about everything could be made both lighter & stronger. Consider the Insight: it can get to 100 mph (at least if you don't have a headwind) using an engine that I can lift with one hand. (128 lbs per Insight Central)

*FTM, what does one of those "infotainment" systems do that can't be done by your average tablet, weighing in at a pound or two?

Last edited by jamesqf; 11-12-2017 at 02:23 PM..
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2017, 02:18 PM   #30 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Earth
Posts: 4,779
Thanks: 195
Thanked 702 Times in 509 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by freebeard View Post
Like this?
More like this: Welcome to ArielAtom.com

  Reply With Quote
Reply  Post New Thread


Thread Tools




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.5.2
All content copyright EcoModder.com